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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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15W-30, GL-1, oil primer...

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Jim in OH

01-16-2006 09:10:45




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First, I don't have time right now to write a lot, I'll get back with something later, but here are the basics...

1- First of all, to sum it up, John(UK) is correct. 15W-30 (or 15W-40, or even others like 20W-50, 10W-40) can be substituted for GL-1... Why? read further...

2-GL-1 (Gear Lube - 1)is straight mineral oil. GL-5 (and others), even though they would better protect the gears from wear, they contain high pressure (HP) additives (sulphur, phosphorus, etc.) that are not compatable with copper containing materials in the machine, particularly when moisture can be present to form acid.

3-Motor oils do not contain these same high pressure additives because the combustion products leaking into the engine have moisture and would form acid if they were allowed. They DO contain additives (e.g. detergents, etc.) but not the HP additives.

4-SAE 90 (or 80) gear lube has about the same viscosity as SAE 30 to SAE 40 motor oil. The two standards are different. Although the measurement of viscosity has been made complex by modern engineering methods, it helps if you understand that the original use of the numbers were nominally the time in seconds to flow a given amount of oil through a specified hole at a given temperature. BUT THE TEMPERATURES WERE DIFFERENT FOR GEAR LUBE AND MOTOR OIL. Gear Lube was tested at 150F and engine oils were tested at 212F. So SAE 90 wt Gearlube, took 90 seconds at 150F and SAE 40 wt motor oil took 40 seconds at 212F. But if you tested SAE 40 motor oil at 150F, you would find that it took about 90 seconds, so therefore it would have been classified SAE 90 by the Gear Lube scale.

5- Multi-weight oils need more explaination, and I'll explain more later. But they do NOT get thicker as they get hotter... they still get thinner, but not as rapidly as single grade oils. SAE 10W-40, SAE 90 GL, SAE 20W-40, all have approximately the same viscosty at 212 F. At temperatures greater than that they will all be thinner. From thickest to thinnest (T>212) 10W-40, 20W-40, SAE 90 GL (not a typo...) So at temperatures less 212 F, the order is reversed, thickest to thinnest (SAE 90 GL,20W-40, 10W-40)

More later, maybe... Jim

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gerard

01-16-2006 10:54:32




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 Re: 15W-30, GL-1, oil primer... in reply to Jim in OH, 01-16-2006 09:10:45  
What has confused people (including me) is the 90wt designation. For those of us used to 90wt, we usually associate that with EP90 gear oil, which is almost as thick as treacle - if compared with engine oil, it"d be abut SAE150.



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Jim in OH

01-16-2006 11:20:08




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 Re: 15W-30, GL-1, oil primer... in reply to gerard, 01-16-2006 10:54:32  
The "EP" rating is (I believe) how it performs under extreme pressure and not directly related to the viscosity... there can be EP90 gear oils that have few additives and would need to be nearly as thick as grease to get an EP90 rating... and there are oils with many additives that get the EP90 rating but are nearly as thin as water... (transmission oil) see example in the link... Lots of EP90 gear lubes are like GL-5 80-90 weight... Jim

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gerard

01-16-2006 12:29:22




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 Re: 15W-30, GL-1, oil primer... in reply to Jim in OH, 01-16-2006 11:20:08  
Interesting link. Lubrication is a whole subject in itself - I leave it to the companies to know best, but the blurb in the link reminded me - polymers added as viscosity improvers are (or were) susceptible to shear in certain conditions - piston oil pumps & ballraces being two examples. Whilst I realise tractor rpms are relatively low, perhaps using multigrade in a transmission that includes piston pump and ballraces is not such a good idea?

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Jim in OH

01-16-2006 12:41:15




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 Re: 15W-30, GL-1, oil primer... in reply to gerard, 01-16-2006 12:29:22  
I have my own reservations, too, not so much from the viscosity breakdown issues since the engine will run much hotter and has the same shear issues (in bearings, piston walls, etc.), but from the detergent standpoint... these newer oilshave additives that are made to scrub the surfaces and then suspend the particles until they are filtered out in the oil filters... The Ferguson trans doesn't have a filter... so the result is that more and more metal, dirt and debri (including absorbed moisture) is suspended and circulated through the metal parts... not a good idea, I think.. just look inside a gear case of a 50 year old Ferguson.. lots of dirt and sludge, but it is on the bottom and the oil still can look pretty good since all of the debri will have settled out... I would at least want to change the oil more often if I used a motor oil (with detergents).. Just my 2 cents.. Jim

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gerard

01-16-2006 12:53:33




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 Re: 15W-30, GL-1, oil primer... in reply to Jim in OH, 01-16-2006 12:41:15  
Thought ballraces etc gave oils a harder time than gear pumps & plain bearings, but agree re detergents. Have always advised against an HD oil in old engines - especially ones with marginal filtration (such as the TE 'rag' filter) for the very reasons you give. One is effectively pumping around a thin grinding paste - the old oils let the gunge drop out and settle in the sump as sludge.



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Jim in OH

01-16-2006 13:24:39




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 Re: 15W-30, GL-1, oil primer... in reply to gerard, 01-16-2006 12:53:33  
Sorry.. your right.. I overlooked your comment on ball races.. (not on purpose :-) Jim



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