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Re: high power rifel Question


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Posted by Billy NY on April 06, 2008 at 08:24:46 from (64.12.117.74):

In Reply to: high power rifel Question posted by tractorran on April 05, 2008 at 20:17:12:

A friend recently went gun happy, like a kid in a candy store, mid life crisis, who knows, was kind of funny, he works a lot, so he reinvented shooting for all of us as ours were kind of collecting dust. He spent a few thousand on the additions to his collection, there were 2 he grabbed that I liked, a heavy barrel Savage in .308, same model in a .17 too. Both were set up with good optics, that heavy barrel .308 really calls for a range finding scope too, it might be a tactical model, shorter barrel, I forget. The accuracy was unreal, with factory loads, I think it's 1:10 rifling. 100 yds I could knock off apples all day long, not much difference at 200 yds.

You need to look at the tables or charts for ballistics of a caliber you are considering, like what the .30 cal range offers, there is also no substitute for a rifle like one of these heavy barrel types, tack driving right out of the box. Then you need to shoot it, see what it likes, try handloads if you need em. I was at the range a few years ago and there were 2 U.S. Army snipers there each with heavy barrel .300 Winchester Magnums and handloads, the same weapons they used in the field in the middle east, was really interesting to shoot with these guys, they were tack driving at 600 yd simulated targets, 300 yd. actual. I have competed at this range many times with my M1A1, it was a treat to have these guys there. Each had fine tuned their weapon with handloads, it took some doing to figure out what loads were the most accurate, but the results were close to perfection, I walked to the target myself and saw this, very impressive. There is no doubt about engaging long range targets with these heavy barrel rifles once you figure out what shoots best and you practice your shooting techniques.

I like the .30 cal, it is a very versatile group, the .30-06 was developed after the 30-40 Krag, when the Germans had us beat with their legendary Mauser rifles, we came up with the M1903 Springfield in response and in time for WWI, followed by the M1 Garand, lot of military surplus of that like JD says. When the M14 arrived in 1957 as the replacement of the M1 Garand, they necked down the .30-06 to the .308 /7.62mm x.51mm but ballistically it is or I believe it is identical, they shaved off 1/2" of the brass and this allowed infantry men to carry 2x as much ammo, same thing happened with the .223/5.56mm, half the weight and they can carry 2x more ammo. I particularly am not a big fan of the 5.56mm, just me though.

The .30 cal family, my favorites including the 30-06, .308, .300 Win. Mag. has a wide selection of bullets for reloading, the latter calibers the bullets interchange, you have to look at the reloading charts, for them and select for what you need, it's a very versatile caliber to load and shoot. Look at the charts, good velocity and flat trajectory, not as flat like lighter, higher velocity bullets, but still very good, and with a better wallop.

I'm not sure how large of game with a hot load a 30-06 or .308 will be effective for, but I can tell you that just straight military ball ammunition 7.62mm w/ 165 gr bullets, if you hit a deer in the spine, it will flip the deer upside down at 100-150 yards, will also punch through an old style GM tire rim at 200 yds, there is no lack of knock down power at 300 yds with a 30-06 or .308. I have a 50-60 ft. high crows nest of a deer stand amongst a few, 2 of us were in one and a deer came out along the power line clearing, my friend hit it dead center in the heart with a 30-06 ( I field dressed it) just under 200 yds factory hunting loads, very effective. Load as you wish and easily take a whitetail at 300 yds once you dial in, I'd use it for coyote too, why not. That .300 Win mag, now that will destroy some meat if you are not careful, max. loads and close range I could post a photo of that, but this is a family site. I can also attest to what a .338 Win. does at the same range, trials and tribulations of some of my friends, he hung up that .338 Win for deer, good move! The other one with scaled back loads using a lighter bullet, still uses the .300 Win Mag for whitetail even in shorter ranges, also does a job on woodchuck, I measured out over 400 yards, and checked with a range finder, it turned the chuck inside out, was summer of '97 in a 500 yd long 24 acre field, nice shot. Same hole I got one with my M1A1, but it died inside, big difference in bullet energy at that range from .308 to .300 Win Mag, with max loads.

The .300 Win. Mag. is probably best suited for larger game and longer range, but loaded light, with the right type of bullet, it won't do any different than the .308 or 30-06, from what I have seen, just set it up for what you are hunting. Another friend has one of these and we have handloaded it quite a bit, it is a brute when hot loaded, make that first shot count, the barrel does heat up after one shot. It is overkill for whitetail in some respects, but for a long range flatter shooting type of shot with a wallop it delivers, get one of those heavy barrel models, load it for what you are hunting, very nice tool to have in the safe. Don't rule out those .30 cal rifles, they are a great and proven caliber to say the least.

That .17, I have a penny and a quarter with holes in it over 100 yds. that was another fun one, that thing has a little punch too, right loads at 100 yds, that coyote is done, especially with the accuracy, it shoots tight groups, it's a tack driver.

Another thing is practicing, none of these are effective if you don't practice, and practice correctly, it's interesting when a few of us shoot the same rifle and compare the results, also compare same from a bench rest as control, your shooting etiquette is critical to accuracy just as much as having a high quality rifle.


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