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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

aux trans for PTO

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LouNY

01-19-2007 04:23:54




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Has anyone seen or know of an inexpensive aux. unit to couple to your PTO to act as a speed increaser, ie. instead of 540 rpm at 2200, say 700-750 at 2200, I would like to be able to have 540 on my PTO without having to run the tractor at full speed, about a 1.5 step up.
Thanks Lou




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Steven@AZ

01-19-2007 10:29:12




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 04:23:54  
Why not buy a Super 44 or 440 to run the generator at night? I mean, who can't use another tractor?

I've run our generator on the Farmall A a few times. It won't work in the winter with all the cattle water heaters going, etc. but in the summer time it will run the fridge/freezers and the lights and TV.

Actually during the winter we hook it up to the 1000 PTO on our 2590 Case and just let it loaf along at around 1400 rpm or so. (the generator is 540)

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massey333

01-19-2007 11:02:42




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to Steven@AZ, 01-19-2007 10:29:12  
Steve,be very careful with that 1000 RPM Case deal if you have ANYTHING ELECTRONIC that has to have absolute 60 Cycles because your Case or any other Tractor running that slow will not have a good enough Governor Reponse to maintain that 60 Cycles +or- 1/2. 20-25engine RPMs makes a Major diff.on the PTO RPMs.



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Steven@AZ

01-19-2007 11:47:57




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to massey333, 01-19-2007 11:02:42  
Yeah, we don't use the computers or anything sensitive on the generator. Just the well pump, cattle water heaters, fridge/freezer, and an old TV we don't care about.

No problems so far!



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LouNY

01-19-2007 07:40:45




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 04:23:54  
To clarify: PTO generator on 1550 Oliver, the most that I draw off the generator is approx. 15 Kw (need 30HP) at night, maybe 6 KW (12HP), I would like to be able to slow the tractor down to 1400 to 1600 RPM, keeping the PTO at 540, this will reduce fuel consumption and engine wear under light loads. I should have stated the ratio as 1 to 0.75, I have considered an car/truck transmission being reversed, inputing tractor PTO to transmission output, using transmission input as actual PTO drive.

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RP3

01-19-2007 22:51:14




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 07:40:45  
How about adding a big pulley to the front of the generator and a belt clutch to a 12hp Briggs engine? At night you engage the belt clutch (which will also start the little engine), disengage the PTO and shut down the tractor engine.



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Don-Wi

01-19-2007 10:54:07




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 07:40:45  
I"m not sure what the rated speed on the 15"s are, but on our 1600 it"s rated to run 540 at 1750 rpm. You may be able to get gears from a 1600 or something to make the pto run 540 at that engine speed, then it"ll all be internal, and you"d just have to remember that the pto runs slower than the tach shows.

As far as I now, gears can be swapped around from one model to another even if the ratios aren"t the same, and 1000 rpm gears could also be installed in the 15 series.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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jdemaris

01-19-2007 09:13:42




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 07:40:45  
Seems kind of shame to have to step the PTO speed up when your PTO generator transmission is already stepping it down. As I mentioned, the Ford A tranmssion has a 2nd gear of 1.6 to 1. So, if you ran it backwards, you'd get a step-up of 1.6 - more-or-less what you're looking for. Unlike most modern transmissions, the Model A trans is just about as rugged on either end. With your Oliver - assuming it's a diesel - it's going to be pretty inefficient being used to make 12 horsepower no matter how you gear it. I might use more fuel if used at a lower than peak RPM. At 2200 RPM when worked at 54 horsepower it's efficiency rating is 12.3 HHG. When worked 40 horsepower the efficiency drops to 10 HHG. At 35 horsepower it drops to 8.5 HHG.
I'll guess and put your tractor at around a 5 horsepower hours per gallon at 12 horsepower at PTO rated RPM. - that's quite a drop. All those figures are at full rated engine speed. So, what happens when you test the same horsepower loads at lower RPMs? I don't know for sure. But, the newer Nebraska tests show some gain with heavy loads. One newer Deere test - 75% load at full 2200 RPM shows a 14 HHG rating, but same 75% load at 1700 RPM shows an efficiency gain to 16.5. A newer Deere 80 horse tractor - one of fuel-efficiency "record breakers" has an efficiency rating of 18 HHG at full load but drops to 6 HHG at 17 horsepower.

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Bob

01-19-2007 07:44:04




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 07:40:45  
For that kind of HP, how about a "Poly-V" belt setup, with 2 sets of pulleys?



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jdemaris

01-19-2007 05:53:59




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 04:23:54  
I've got a couple of machines I'd like to do the same thing on - but my RPM goal differs. My Allis Chalmers HD4 has an engine-speed PTO - i.e. it'll run 3000 RPM. I'd like to adapt something to it to slow it to 525. Same goes for my Allis Chalmers HD6. The HD6 was available with a mulitple-speed PTO gearbox - even had reverse. I've never found one though, for sale anywhere. That all being said - in your case, you didn't mention horsepower. For a low-power setup, a rugged car transmission that has full bearing support front and rear should work - but they are rare. Most automotive transmissions require a flywheel/crankshaft with a pilot bearing to support the front of the transmission. One transmssion that is very rugged and has full ball-bearing suppport front and rear is the Ford Model A car 3 speed trans. (not the AA truck 4 speeed). That's what Oliver used OEM for an aux. trans. on the OC3s. The Model As were good for a max. of 40 brake-horsepower - but I have no idea what the trans. is rated at for max. power. Reduction is 2.6 in 1st, 1.6 in 2nd, 1 in 3rd, and 2.2 in reverse. The transmissions can usually be found cheap and all the parts are available new-aftermarket. In my area, year's ago, farmers made all kinds of contraptions and winchs with the A transmissions.

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Oldmax

01-19-2007 04:42:07




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to LouNY, 01-19-2007 04:23:54  
If you do this it will reduce your HP to PTO by same amount that you are increasing the speed . If you double speed you are going to lose 1/2 of your HP . I can't under stand why you would want to do this it is going to bring your engine down out of touque range and that is going to cut power even more . If it is ground speed you are needing less of then get another tractor that has lower gears . The 8n has three fwd gears & top speed about 20 MPH not much good for using rototiller . my 1715 has six fwd gears & has a top speed of 12 MPH . and has about the same HP .

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Bob

01-19-2007 06:44:19




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to Oldmax, 01-19-2007 04:42:07  
WAIT UP THERE, A SECOND...

Doubling the speed does NOT "halve" the HP.

It halves the TORQUE.

Torque AND speed are BOTH components of HP.



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Coloken

01-19-2007 06:59:11




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to Bob, 01-19-2007 06:44:19  
I think he means that if you reduce the engine RPM by half, you reduce the HP by half. Not exact-it depends on torque at that RPM.



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Bob

01-19-2007 07:37:17




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 Re: aux trans for PTO in reply to Coloken, 01-19-2007 06:59:11  
Point taken.



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