Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Two cycle gasoline engines

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Rich in NYS

11-12-2005 16:44:24




Report to Moderator

I was told that the two cycle gasoline engine does not get as much traction as a typical 4 stroke equivalent engine. The man was telling me this because it applies to a trial and error he did between a yamaha warrior and a yamaha banshee. Almost same weight, same rider, and same ground conditions, tire tread and pattern etc. With that said would a tractor do the same thing say if i were to put a two stroke engine on my farmall H. I do believe that i saw where someone put a 2 stroke twin cylinder engine in a farmall on this website. If this question is stupid say so.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Can't even use my name

11-13-2005 18:13:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
Those two ATV's are two different animals when it comes to the engines. Pretty much identical in every other way. I have an '01 Banshee and the neighbor has an '00 Warrior. That Warrior doesn't even come close to keeping up with me. I mean no way no how. I assume the hp. is much greater in the Banshee but the traction issue comes down to the natural characteristics of a two stroke ATV engine. Low RPM's and no power, hit the mid RPM's and INSTANTLY you have all squirrels kicking, at least in the Banshee's. These things are seriously powerful in stock form which is why that guy claims there is less traction out of a two stroke. They do like to spin the tires easily but they spin so fast they get enough traction to propel you like a cannon shot.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike S 806/H

11-13-2005 10:59:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
I had alot of 4 stroke and 2 strokes atv's , I like the 2 stroke's better, if your racing a 250 2 stroke dirt bike you would have to have a 450 to 500 cc 4 stroke to compete with the 2 stroke 250, As for a 2 stroke in a H it would of had to of been a detroit diesel.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
xragman

11-13-2005 09:02:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
just remember, h. p. is a hypothecical number arived at by; RPM X torque . In a tractor one wants lugging power. high torque @ low RPM



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI

11-13-2005 04:14:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
Most likely the two stroke engine in the Farmall was a 2-53 Detroit Diesel. Not really comparable with a small, two stroke gas engine such as used in an ATV.

Question is, why do you want do an engine swap?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RAB

11-13-2005 09:23:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to MarkB_MI, 11-13-2005 04:14:52  
I will add that I am in possession of a vehicle with a 900cc 3-cylinder 2 stroke which gives about 40HP (at about 4-5000rpm, I think)
Regards, RAB



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RAB

11-13-2005 00:03:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
If you think about 2 stroke versus 4, there are several things which are different - torque and power curves probably the most important.
Now think about the situation with regards your tractor - if the 2 stroke engine has to rev twice as fast to get the same power, you would be expecting that tractor to be travelling twice as fast too. That is like up a couple of gears, or whatever, comparing with your 4 stroke equivalent.
I will add that for any engine the higher the specific power output, the narrower the useful torque band - so more gears needed.
Things are not very equal when deciding to change just one 4 stroke engine for another, let alone different types of engine.
I am sure a large 2 stroke engine of similar power could be used satisfactorily, but not a small one, revving itself (and the gearbox input shaft) at 2, 3, or more times the design for that original tracor.
RAB

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
old

11-12-2005 19:39:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
It wouldn't be a matter of tracktion but a matter of how the engine work and get there HP. Say you have two 4 wheelers both weight the same but one has a 2 cycle engine and one a 4 cycle engine. They both get the same traction but the 2 cycle has to run at a higher RPM to get the same HP and that causes problems with how easy it would be to make them spin and once you start spinning you loose traction. It just like when your driveing on ice if you floor the car you spin but if you give it just enough to go you can go any where but it takes a long time to get up to speed that way.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RustyFarmall

11-12-2005 18:15:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
You are comparing apples to oranges. A two stroke engine in a four wheeler is designed for racing, and cannot be run at low rpms to help maintain traction. The idea with a two stroke racing engine is to run it full throttle and just let the tires dig and scratch, absolutely no good in slick or muddy conditions. The four stroke CAN be operated at low rpm, and will make decent horsepower, and will not break traction. There are two stroke engines designed to operate at lower rpms, and would be useable in a tractor.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RN

11-12-2005 17:07:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
2 strokes have their own torque characteristics- as a general statement subject to dispute- a slightly narrower peak power range and slight less torque curve. Note that peak power can be higher for weight and displacement of engine as compared to 4stroke. As for a 2 stroke in H- are you thinking of a Rotax snowmobile engine or a GMC 2-71? GMC 2 cyl 2stroke would be about like a JD 430(?) from factory. Olivers hade a big tractor with a GMC4-53 about 100hp range (1655?) with good reputation. Cousins in-laws have a White with a 3 cylinder GMC 3-71 I think that they use as large utility/medium field use -thes are linear flow designs with overhead exhaust valves, compressors, diesels. Gas engine 2stroke tractors with piston port time loop scavenged design? Garden tractors maybe- ILO, Sachs, Rotax engines had industrial/agricultural use advertised, I have seen tillers and lawntractor advertised with 2 strokes now, some about 20 year old garden tractors maybe? . Snowmobile engines used in hotrod garden tractors for drag raceing, pulling exhibitions known- actual garden plowing and cultivating ?? What engine do you have in mind? RN

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
phillip d

11-12-2005 16:58:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to Rich in NYS, 11-12-2005 16:44:24  
Hi Rich,no question is stupid.If you can get it to fit to your transmission some how,than it probably would work.As far as power,they used 671"screamin demin" detroits (two stroke) in some trucks,they needed to be run at high rpm to get the torque though.Hope this is of some help.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

11-12-2005 17:44:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to phillip d, 11-12-2005 16:58:32  
The Detroit Diesels were noted for good breathing which actually gave them flat torque curves.This however tends conflict with driver experience with four stroke diesels which are way past thier torque peak when cranked up to peak rpm. Those four strokes just fall right on thier faces when reved past peak HP rpms. However when lugged the HP drops rapidly but torque increases giving the impression of more power. The DD if reved faster made more HP with about the same torque. That's why if lugged enough to begin dropping rpms the two strokes had to be down shifted. No torque rise as airflow/volumetric efficiency improve dlittle as the two stroke's rpms drop. As previously stated a gasser two stroke makes more HP per cubic inch than a four stroke but with a narrower torque and HP peak. No matter if it's two stroke or four. If both engines are rated at 50HP at 3600 rpms then both can do the equal amount of work per hour.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Frank Kovarick

11-15-2005 21:45:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Two cycle gasoline engines in reply to buickanddeere, 11-12-2005 17:44:43  
I had a lot of experience racing a sports racing car with a 3 cyl 2 stroke SAAB engine. Due to having a power stroke every engine revolution, they had, for equal size more HP and torque than a 4 stroke. The thing about traction is that since they have 2X's the power strokes per rev. it's a smoother force and doesn't have the dig of a 4 stroke. EG; a 2 cyl. 4 stroke John Deere will literally take bites out of the ground at low revs. A friend blew a head gasket on an A JD pulling with so low an RPM that you could see the wheels turn for each power stroke. The explosions in the cylinders didn't have any place to go rapidly so it blew out the head gaskets.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy