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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

debugging poor starting diesel engine

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LK

01-30-2005 16:16:37




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I recently bought an old New Holland L555 deluxe skid steer, with a Kubota diesel engine.

This machine has been poorly maintained. And, in the process of getting it down off the mountain and onto a trailer, it went out of control and turned over into the woods. (this was reported on this forum a few weeks back) So, my first action is changing all fluids and filters.

Today I changed the crankcase oil and filter, the big hydraulic filter, and the main fuel filter. I'll be getting air filters this week.

Currently, it is very hard to start, but does eventually run. I hold the glow plug button for about 10 secs, and crank. Very quickly it starts to hit on about 2 cylinders I'd guess. Smoke and unburned diesel vapor come from the exhaust.

I can tell it is nearly running because if I turn the throttle down to stop, There is a large change in the sound.

If I crank long enough, it eventually catches and runs great when it does. I think a clogged injector is ruled out- it really sounds like it is hitting on all 4. I see some minor blueish smoke while it warms up, then the exhaust looks good.

I don't know much about debugging a diesel engine. Does it sound like maybe I have one or more bad glow plugs?

Now, bear in mind that it is pretty cold. Today was a balmy 34 degrees at the warmest, but it has been sub freezing mostly.

I plan to put some diesel 911 in the tank, and replace the primary fuel filter which is a simple inline filter. By the way, I have read that you never use starting ether on a glow plug engine. My Case back hoe requires it in the winter, and says so in the manual. This kubota engine warns agains it.

Any tips on debugging a hard-to-start diesel engine would be appreciated.

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RJays

02-05-2005 19:30:39




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-30-2005 16:16:37  
It's a V8 GM diesel with all the same symptoms as your Kubota. It's definitely not glow plugs. I am begining to think it may be fuel injector timing. Anyone know anything about adjusting this?



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Mike M

01-31-2005 10:37:33




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-30-2005 16:16:37  
Some of those glow plug engines won't even start when hot outside without them.Make sure they work and try holding them on longer.



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txblu

01-30-2005 20:18:43




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-30-2005 16:16:37  
Could make this long and drawn out but my hard starting tractor was low compression. When I dismantled the engine I saw why..... .essentially no rings. Couldn't believe it ran as good as it did when it finally did run.

Overhaul solved the problem. Now it starts right up with no ether.

Mark



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LK

01-31-2005 11:01:30




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to txblu, 01-30-2005 20:18:43  
Yikes- rebuilding is not what I wanted to hear!

Is it tricky to check compression on a diesel? Do you just pull the injectors one by one? Aren't those things seriously torqued in (and you can't use a socket)?

Thanks



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txblu

01-31-2005 19:25:03




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-31-2005 11:01:30  
Diesel compression is like 400 to 500 psig at cranking rpm whereas gas is 90 to 150.

Never worried about torqueing injectors. I do use a new copper washer anytime I remove one for any reason.

Best way to tell if a cylinder is working is to crack the fuel line to the injector. Under the nut (at the injector) it will fist fist fist fuel out under the nut every time the pump hits that cylinder and the rpm's will drop off noticeably. Retightening the nut restores the smoothness and rpm's. That is how you know if that cylinder is working for you or again you.

Mark

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Russ Smart

01-30-2005 17:43:00




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-30-2005 16:16:37  
Maybe you have 2 bad glo plugs?



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thejdman01

01-30-2005 17:29:01




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-30-2005 16:16:37  
make sure glow plugs good. smell the diesel. you said poorly maintained in cold alge in the diesel will slow but if it has any water and alge that makes one heck of a difference. a warm block makes a world of difference. if your getting blue smoke when warmed burning oil. your shooting yourself in the foot in winter w/a thicker oil but that would help w/compression i dont knwo what you are currently running for oil. i had a tractor once used oil pretty bad and put thicker oil in it to get the compression up that shed start and the thick oil didnt bother too bad even though it was cold as long as she was plugged in and i had a magntic heater on the pan or another tip that i found works super find an old concrete blanket that plugs in usually you can find old ones fairly easy if you look in the right place and run a red hen heater 1/2 hour before youw ant it started under the blanket that makes a world of difference. also not sure about that engine weather it has an inline or rotary injection pump my guess is an inline the easiest way to rule out fuel problem is when its running crack open each line individually a bad injector or a fuel problem the rpm will not change then you know that cylinder is the dead cylinder. if the rpm drops you know that cylinder is working cause when you crack the line rpm drops that means that one was working

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J. Schwiebert

01-30-2005 16:49:57




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-30-2005 16:16:37  
I am not the Kubota man, but check your glow plugs for continunity and 10 seconds does not sound like long enough. What model Kuboda is it. Also yes do not use starting fluid with glow plugs. Questions/



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LK

01-30-2005 17:18:05




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to J. Schwiebert, 01-30-2005 16:49:57  
It is a New Holland L555 deluxe skid steer with a Kubota V1920 4 cyl diesel. I've been reading, and yes, the book says 20 to 45 seconds on the glow plug button. I think I've not been waiting long enough. A friend has a 2002 NH skidsteer and it takes about 10 secs on the GP.

I think that some of the fuel in the tank is old- it was largely empty when I got it, but I added 5 gals of fresh. The manual talks about summer mix and winter mix diesel. It suggests adding 10% kero for cold weather. Maybe this is just a fuel issue.

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ohio dick

01-30-2005 20:51:47




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 Re: debugging poor starting diesel engine in reply to LK, 01-30-2005 17:18:05  
I have an l555 5 seconds on glow plugs maximum of 10 if you have good plugs. Sometimes glowplugs get weak some times open. Check with ohm meter 1 ohm is good.



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