Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

When will the EPA madness stop

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Wayne

06-12-2004 21:29:51




Report to Moderator

Talked to one of the head man in our local Komatsu dealers shop the other day. I had already heard bits and pieces of what's starting to happen out there in the equipment industry because of the TIER compliant engines, but what I was told the other day seems to be completely ignorant. According to what their being told at the dealership, when the new engines hit the market and make it back into the shop for "service" there isn't really much "servicing" they are gonna be allowed to do. The example he gave me was that if an engines RPM was off by more than 50 from spec, they aren't gonna be able to adjust it, your gonna have to buy a new fuel pump and hope it fixes the problem...if not then????. I've already talked to another mechanic with one of the big local construction companies and he said they aren't letting them rebuild the "complient" engines in their machines. They have to knock a hole in the block and dispose of the old one and buy a new one. Anybody bought a brand new fuel pump lately.....how about a complete engine.....Ain't neither one of them going cheap.....Personally I think it's gonna get to the point companies are gonna stop buying new equipment and go back to the old stuff that can be easily and cheaply repaired. I'm just waiting for the day when all those $500,000 machines out there get shutdown by a fifty cent o-ring that just happens to be in a non repairable component that's gonna cost an aditional $100,000 to replace. I believe the consumer is gonna get stuck with the bills in the beginning, but eventually it's gonna work it's way back up and start hitting the big contractors in the bottom line and all He-- is gonna break loose in Washington. Can you see every contractor out there going on strike and refusing to do any work for the Feds til things are straightened out???? The biggest question, and i know it's touched on on here all the time, is just in general when are we as Americas gonna take America back from "The Government". Just my .02 on the subject....

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Scotty

06-16-2004 02:23:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
AMEN BROTHER!!! First Tobacco, Then Auto Emissions. Now Food, & soon alcohol! Dont even get me started on the courts, U.N. & the Anti-War crowd!!!!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
cockshuttguy

06-13-2004 16:29:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
My son works at a very large Komatsu dealership.
I'll ask if such a thing has been floated there lately. I've not heard of such a rumor.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
stan

06-13-2004 08:18:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
A couple years ago when I herd a tractor was impounded for running over a rat I knew things were going to get worse. Here in San Diego CAlif. several people were killed, and around 2,500 homes were lost to a fire. Now to remove extra brush beyond the 100 ft. requirements on your land it is necessary to get a special permit, which is sometimes not granted. All this is is to save some endangered bird, or rodent. This crap needs to stop.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JC

06-13-2004 07:40:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
Don't know bout all that, but can say that the purpose of any governmental agency, once created is to look good, maintain itself and grow if it can. Its effect on what it is assigned to regulate is all secondary. Throw politics in with that, and you have yourself quite a beast. The EPA will continue to push its agenda and expand the scope of its "impact" unless educated people take a stand. The nightly news and MTV many people digest help to ensure the status quo. WOnder how many lost jobs can be attributed to governmental over-regulation?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jls

06-13-2004 20:35:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to JC, 06-13-2004 07:40:53  
JC wondered about lost jobs-- EPA is pretty much to blame for soft coal mining going in the dumper, you can't get anything hot dip galvinized made in the US, bet everyone else can think of others. PS I predict that we will be importing more refined petro rather than build US refineries.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gary in TX

06-13-2004 07:14:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
Sounds more too me like kickback to the manufacturors of the the components that they are changing, making more money by replaceing rather than repairing. In my opinion its the big guys wanting more and the hell with the little guys! Progress, huh, it seems more to me like we are taking steps backwards. I would like to see made in America on more items. You can rest assured that its more of a money issue rather than a enviromental, take a close look at that word, enviromental, enviro mental, mental being the key word. Now I'm not saying that its a bad thing to look out for our enviroment, I think we should but some of these people are carrying it too far.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tommy D6-8U

06-13-2004 06:53:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
The same types of arguments came up when automakers went to computerized fuel injection in the arly eighties. There were concerns then that cars would not be repairable and would be throwaways. Some things turned to out to be true but after the initial hoopla, everyone got used to serviceing things in a different way and becoming competent on them. They went through another phase in 1996 with OBDII vehicles that standardized the computer hookups and trouble codes etc. I agree the EPA sometimes pushes too far too fast but we've got to do something about the amount of stuff diesels put in the air. Yes it will be a pain in the a?? for a while and will probably be expensive no matter what, but we don't have anywhere else to live; I think we need to do what we can to help keep it clean. We just might not be able to "turn out" the ole' smoke screw like we used to!!! OTR trucks and even locomotives now are being required to adhere to new emission standards so its only fair other engines should comply too. Just my opinion!

Tommy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Wayne

06-13-2004 20:58:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Tommy D6-8U, 06-13-2004 06:53:51  
What are you saying, that car's aren't already throw away comodities? Have you taken a vehicle that is less than 10 years old in to be repaired lately, or seen all the cars sitting outside repair shops because they aren't worth repairing because of all the computer junk? That was one of my uncles biggesat problems with his shop was what to do with all the cars that were just abandoned with him because... one bad injector was gonna cost $600 to repair because it was all an assembly and you had to replace the entire system.....the ABS computer died leaving a $800 bill....the main computer died to the tune of----...Get The Idea???? What is worse on the environment, having a decently clean burning vehicle that will run for 25 years and just put it's own pollutants in the air, or one that dies and has to be recycled ever 5 years? Heck equipment is already to the point that the customers are having to replace items within a year of owning it that on the older equipment never broke. We've got a customer right now stripping overburden with an old 9570 Northwest crane with a Murphy diesel(70+ year old technology in the engine). He can move 10 times as much material in a day with it and use 1/2 the fuel as the 3 year old 375 CAT excavator they have loading trucks right behind him. Think about how much more the earth is polluted every time that car/tractor/machine gets recycled. There is the fuel left in the tank that may or may not all get reclaimed, the truck that hauls it to the scrap yard, the tractor that moves it around the yard, the new truck to haul off the yard, the power plant powering the shredder to make it suitable to recycle, as well as the smelter to melt it down, the power plant to run the assembly line...and on and on and on..... ... Up until it got wrecked in a towing accident in 1990 I drove a restored 1955 Chevy 210 2dr wagon full time. I had less than $13,000 in restoring it and had a he-- of a nice car. It had a 283 small block, a 4 speed transmission and a nice highway geared rear. I drove it over 200 miles each way about every other weekend and was consistently getting 22-25 MPG out of it. I could tune it up affordably and regularly myself, and if it broke on the side of the road, which it never did I might ad, I could afford to carry a few odds and ends extra to repair it, or hit a parts store in BFE and get what I needed off the shelf. I even went so far as to have a guy do a emmisions check on it once just to see how it did. What the guy told me based on the results was my car burned cleaner than any most new cars he had seen at the time. Now you tell me why do we need all these high dollar computer controls to do the same thing I was doing with technology that was 30+ years old??? Just something else to think about...

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tommy D6-8U

06-16-2004 02:53:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-13-2004 20:58:03  
Wayne,

My main point was that we have to look at our environment and reduce the impact we have on it on all fronts. That will require all of us to do some things differently. Like I said, I don't agree with everything the EPA does but regardless of how you look at it, most vehicles run cleaner and in a lot of cases last longer because of better fuel control and emission control.

I also think we tend to hit the panic button instead of looking at new ideas critically. Sometimes new ways are better, sometimes they are worse.

Just my opinion based on my experience in the automotive and engine industry. I may be very wrong about all of it though!

Tommy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

06-13-2004 12:30:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Tommy D6-8U, 06-13-2004 06:53:51  
I agree the most with Tommy. People by nature are terrified of the unknown and refuse to learn and change. The other truth here is gov't bureaucracies may start off with good intentions. However they grow into empires that are more concerned with the process than the product/service they are supposed to provide.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ron

06-13-2004 05:16:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
Don't know about heavy equipment, but forklift engines that are compliant are rebuildable.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ron

06-13-2004 04:37:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
What you say is true. I disagree with your conclusions though. Industry will not stop doing business with the feds, they will simply pass the cost along to consumers resulting in higher prices. They always have and they always will. This makes for less demand and sends more jobs overseas. Pretty soon we will have clean air and no one to breathe it.

Now if we can only find a way to send our politicans overseas with a one-way ticket!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Wayne

06-13-2004 20:24:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Ron, 06-13-2004 04:37:03  
That's my "unspoken" point in a nutshell. Just like cheap labor overseas making items cheaper to buy...what difference dose it make how cheap things are if no one has a job and the money to buy them.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Irv

06-12-2004 21:44:47




Report to Moderator
 Re: When will the EPA madness stop in reply to Wayne, 06-12-2004 21:29:51  
I don't know about the epa stuff, but I do know that most automotive repairs seem to be replacing assemblies, not repairing things. A lot of this is due to modular design - fewer parts, more complex subunits - notice I said subunits, not subassembles. More stuff comes as modules now - the powertrain is a module. The interiors of cars are being inserted as modules. Less assembly time ( Less labor ) More profit, less warranty. The big 3(?) have cut thier warranty by 50% in the last 5 years. My 2c.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy