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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice

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Redd

05-09-2004 08:17:01




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I,m getting a new Ford with a Powerstroke-Automatic and would like some advice on specing it out and options. What to get and not get. Please I've heard all the war stories about allthree brands, (They all have their lemons)so lets be nice. I do know that after a life of being a chevy man, after owning a 6.5l turbodiesel I'm switching to Ford. (Did you ever have one of those vehicles you wished someone would steal?) I know I'm slightly off topic but nobody visits the OT site. I also realize this has been discussed alot but you guys really have a lot of experience to offer

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T_Bone

05-10-2004 03:06:47




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
Hi Redd,

Kinda hard to give you any help as you didn't say what use you had for your new truck. I did a cost comparrision on a reg cab SWR vs CC DRW and it was 7% more for the CC DRW in 2k2.

For mileage the 6.0 gets slitghtly better fuel mileage than the 7.3. I believe the key to great fuel mileage is the driving style of the owner. I get consistantly 19.2mpg empty and 14.1mpg pulling 16k GCW with my F350 7.3 DRW.

Any drivebywire diesel is very picky on how it's driven for fuel mileage.

I would get the camper package with the 3:73 ratio. There's not many options on the drivetrain.

T_Bone

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Ken C.

05-09-2004 20:17:31




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
I own a 03 dodge deisel, and drive an 04 ford deisel at work. The dodge has plenty of pulling power and when empty will average 20 mpg. The ford has plenty of power also, but mileage is only about 10 to 11 mpg. The dodge rpm's working range is about 500 to rpm's lower than the ford. The 6.0 turns more rpm's doing the same work, but has a faster throttle response.Does'nt seem to matter on the ford mileage loaded or empty stays about the same, but had no trouble with either yet.

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OTR

05-09-2004 18:54:15




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
Sounds like something b&d read in one of his "manuals" again!



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jim

05-09-2004 18:47:30




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
got a 7.3 PS and would not trade it for nothin' I have heard that the new Ford 6.0 are finally straightened out, I would buy the extened warranty no matter what diesel I bought. I have heard rumors that the allison trannys behind the Duramax is not holding up, go figure. I don't think any of them can get it right the first time.



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jim

05-09-2004 18:47:20




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
got a 7.3 PS and would not trade it for nothin' I have heard that the new Ford 6.0 are finally straightened out, I would buy the extened warranty no matter what diesel I bought. I have heard rumors that the allison trannys behind the Duramax is not holding up, go figure. I don't think any of them can get it right the first time.



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colekicker

05-09-2004 18:12:47




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
I have one suggestion. Replace the stock rear bumper with a pipe bumper. I built mine for my F-150 and it has saved my rear on two occasions in two years. It is well worth the expense.



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kyhayman

05-09-2004 18:09:02




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
First of all I'm taking a guess on what you are using it for? For me I never, ever order a truck based on what I want, I go to a dealer that has a good selection and willing to negotiate for something on the lot.

When I got my last one (an '01 Ram 2500 4x4 quad cab, cummins, 5 speed; just turned 100,000 (100,018 tonight) I went to a dealer 65 miles from me who had 50 new diesels on the lot and prices $1000 over invoice. I told the salesman I wanted 5 speed, quad cab, diesel, all the springs they could put under one, and a/c. Any other option (including cloth seats and a radio) is wasted $$ for me. He showed me about 6 that met what I wanted, I did have to get a couple of little options to get one in grey with an 8' bed but it was worth it not to order one and have to pay list. I know some folks say that gas trucks are a better buy than diesels but I love mine. One thing they dont account for is the resale value, a gas truck here wont bring over $8K with 100,000 miles, local dealer has diesels with 150,000 for $20,000 and cant keep them. When a new one is under $28K I cant see not buying new.

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Ray

05-09-2004 17:37:08




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
Your a brave man,ford has alredy bought back over 700 new PS diesel trucks under the lemon
law,read that in an industry trade paper a couple
months ago,probably over 1000 now.I had two of
the 7.3 diesels never had any problems other than
wheel seals.I went with a new duramax to get a better tranny and I was tired shifting all the
time.I don't know about the new diesel,but my
duramax will easily out pull the old 7.3 or the
dodge cummins I had.The fords had 3.55 gears
the duramax has 3.73.The dodge had 4.10 witch
are to low the motor was almost at red line at
highway speed.

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Tony

05-09-2004 16:30:43




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
Redd, I owned a 2001 F-350 Dually with the 7.3. auto,3.73 gears for the last 3 years. I was well pleased with it and had no trouble during this time. I recently bought a 2004 F-350 Dually with the 6.0, auto, 3.73 gears. I am extremely inpressed with quickness of the engine as well as the shifting of the transmission. Hopefully the 6.0 will be the workhorse the 7.3 is!! I think as others have mentioned, you can get a lemon in all of the major name brand trucks. The quality has improved in all the major truck lines. I like the Chevy and Dodge, each have their strong points. Good luck with your truck!! Just my 2 cents !

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Scotty

05-09-2004 14:59:07




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
I have a 97 Dodge 2500 4x4 5.9 Gas automatic I wish someone would steel!!! Here's why!

1) Engine went at 47,500 Miles
2) Torque Converter at 60,000
3) Transmission at 84,000
4) 14 computer failures related to the engine
5) Fuel filter in the gas tank of all places
6) Dodge refused to accept any responsibilty at all for repairs

I was offered an extended warranty, & stupidly turned it down. They wanted $2000 for it. The Chevrolet I traded only cost $600 for the warranty 3 years before! THAT RIGHT THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WARNING ENOUGH TO WALK AWAY! By the way the vehicle now has 115,000 miles on it, & it it parked in the barn collecting dust with a bearing out of the drive shaft. Its so bad I wont sell it to any one. Next time it moves its going to the junk yard! I bought a 94 Chev 2500 with 350 gas 4x4 auto with 230,000 miles in October, & I have put 14,000 miles on it, & I have only spent $90 on repairs for the heater blower motor! Although I really like it; But I wish I had bought a Diesel... After spending 11,500 out of my pocket on that Dodge I didnt want to spend that extra money at the time on a diesel! Also the Dodge had 95% of the time been driven 40 miles to work with 80% of that being an interstate highway. There is absolutely no reason for that many failures to happen!

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Greengo

05-14-2004 16:08:44




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Scotty, 05-09-2004 14:59:07  
I can understand the Dodge problems.
I had a 99 one ton dually with a cummins in it.
The engine was great but the rest of the truck was a piece of sh$t. Trans went the times under warranty, Couldn't shut the driver door most of the time without it locking itself. Front end problems ( the whole front suspension was shot).
Had less that 60000 miles on it. Was glad to get rid of the piece of junk. Have Chevy now and would not trade it for anything. Ford would be a good second with the Navistar power stroke

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26Red

05-10-2004 07:58:18




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Scotty, 05-09-2004 14:59:07  
Sounds like your dodge was rode pretty hard before you got it. I have 200K miles on my '97 5.9 gas...



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Mike M

05-09-2004 18:47:27




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Scotty, 05-09-2004 14:59:07  
I have had the exact opposite experience as you. My 1983 Chevy was the biggest piece of junk I ever owned turned me off of GM. My present truck a 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 ext. cab with 360 gas and 150,000 miles has been a very good truck I haven't had to work on it very much.Main problem was the diff. carrier side bearings went bad.I think chrysler got some bad bearings I heard alot of Jeeps had this problem also. I have been most impressed with a few Toyota trucks I know of around here from the mid 1980's they seem to rum trouble free little or no leaks even when the frame has rotted away ! I wish I had the money I'd like to try one of those new Tundra 4 door cab trucks out. Toyota still needs to build a bigger truck with a diesel wish they would get with it.

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Mike S

05-09-2004 16:43:17




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Scotty, 05-09-2004 14:59:07  
I have a 1994 Dodge/Cummins with 174,000 miles on it now and I love the truck! If you want to give your dodge away I will take it !!!!!



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Jumptrap

05-09-2004 12:40:58




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
Redd,

I truly am being 'nice' and passing on what a Chrysler/Ford dealership service manager told me last year when I asked; Dodge or Ford?

If you want to haul the mail, buy a Ford. If you want to drive away and never come back, buy a Dodge.



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never come back...

05-09-2004 13:21:50




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Jumptrap, 05-09-2004 12:40:58  
You mean the Dodge wouldn't even make it back????



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Jumptrap

05-10-2004 08:46:46




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 Re: Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to never come back..., 05-09-2004 13:21:50  
here everybody is being civil and then a smart a$$ pipes in. Go back to the farm and munch another stem, you need to stay with a horse and wagon hayseed



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scottf

05-10-2004 11:59:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Jumptrap, 05-10-2004 08:46:46  
I thought it was pretty funny. It's nice when you can get good laugh.



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Dan in Wisconsin

05-09-2004 11:03:30




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
Take a look at this site:>Link

Lots>Link of info there on the new and old Ford diesels. Even space for the "non-conformists". I have to be a little bias as I own stock in FOMOCO.



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buickanddeere

05-09-2004 11:02:41




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
Unless you tow more than 5,000 miles a year, drive more than 15,000 miles per year, drive more than 10 miles per trip and plan on keeping the truck and driving it into the ground.
It's cheaper to purchase a gasser.



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Farmall43

05-11-2004 07:44:34




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to buickanddeere, 05-09-2004 11:02:41  
An easy answer for gas to diesel. Gas regular $2.08 gal. Diesel $1.69 gal. I would not give up my chevy 2500 6.5 turbo for anything less than a new Duramax.



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Greengo

05-14-2004 16:18:35




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 Re: Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Farmall43, 05-11-2004 07:44:34  
AMEN on the gas and diesel prices, wouldn't take long to pay for the diesel at those rates.
And the durability is better and mileage is comparable to gas.



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buickanddeere

05-11-2004 09:03:55




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 Re: Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Farmall43, 05-11-2004 07:44:34  
Depends on how far you drive. People get real mad at me when we run the numbers after they brag about saving $20.00 a week on fuel with thier diesel. Even allowing for 20% better mileage on diesel. A tank of gasoline for $41.60 goes as far as $28.16 worth of diesel. Hmmm... thats a whole $13.43 per tank(20US gallons). Most pickup truck drivers don't burn a tank a week either, but less. $10,000.00 for the diesel option and interest to save #13.43 per tank. That's 744 tanks of fuel over 14.3 years to break even. Your economical diesel truck will be done for at the end of five years if buring three tanks equivalent of gasoline of fuel a week with 225,000 miles. Into high priced repairs before this time and miles too. Plus diesel at that price means you are burning off road diesel so allow for you fines as well in your savings. Plus you interest payments on the $10,000.00 option or lost of investment revenue from spending that money on a diesel. Unless you run a tow truck for a living or haul landscaping equipment all day from job to job all day, everyday. The diesel doesn't pay. As far as getting a HD one ton dually and hauling only 14,000lb on a 5th wheel. Get a real semi truck tractor and trailer and haul more for less money/lb.

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Farmall43

05-11-2004 11:00:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to buickanddeere, 05-11-2004 09:03:55  
No that is on road diesel and I drive about 500 - 800 miles a week. I have 232,000 on the truck and have spent less than $2500.00 on repairs in the last 3 yrs. I frequently haul 14,500 GVW. In order to get an equal preformance I would have to go to a big block gasser and that means only 8-11 mpg. I get 19 empty and 16 loaded with the diesel. I bought the truck used 3 yrs ago with 146,000 miles on it. I paid $7000 cash for it and have never regreted buying it. I know they are more expensive to buy and maintain but you just can not get a gasser to give you the same preformance as the diesel.

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buickanddeere

05-12-2004 11:20:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Ni in reply to Farmall43, 05-11-2004 11:00:26  
By purchasing your truck so cheaply and the unusually wide spread between gasoline and diesel prices in your state. Your application my break even or better. The mileage you state with the diesel is optimistic. Purchasing new even in your state the diesel would never pay. Here diesel run about 8-12 per US gallon cheaper than gasoline. Diesel just don't pay here unless burning off road fuel, towing 10,000 loads daily for 100+ miles or running 24/7 in tow trucks. Diesel here is 99% of the time just a status symbol.

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John S

05-09-2004 17:45:27




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to buickanddeere, 05-09-2004 11:02:41  
I personally think it takes a lot more driving and towing than that to pay off. When you factor in purchase price, extra maintainace costs (more engine oil and expensive filters) you will have to put 200,000 miles on the truck before you break even and even then it is a maybe. As far as durabilty I have driven a few "gassers" well past 200,000 and many well over 100,000 miles with no problems. Plus I have a old Jeep J-20 pickup that I have had for 19 years that still runs and the only thing done to engine has been a starter, fuel pump and a 20 dollar carb rebuild kit and it even pushed snow for years too. I am not knocking diesels, I am only saying that when you add up all the costs it takes a very long time to break even if at all. They made more sense when they were 2000 to 2500 dollar options but those days are long gone. I would love to see Detroit bring back a simple low tech 200hp class reliable diesel for that price but I do not think that will ever happen. It is a shame as they do it with gassers, they should do it with diesels too.

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Gary

05-09-2004 12:06:05




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to buickanddeere, 05-09-2004 11:02:41  
If you don't drive more than that, you should RENT a truck



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Mark

05-09-2004 09:31:10




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 Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Redd, 05-09-2004 08:17:01  
How you spec it will depend on what you are going to use it for and how long you expect to keep it.For towing,order the heaviest suspension,all the extra coolers that can be had,trailer tow package,pretty much heavy duty everything and a 4.10 rear if you are going to tow heavy on hilly/mountainous terrain.If you are flatland, part time towing,3.50 rear will be good,would still order all the hd cooling etc. If it's going to be mostly a car,lighten up on the hd spec springs etc.Trans is your choice,they are both expensive to repair/replace. With the past problems of the 6.0,I would strongly suggest an extended warranty,with loaner vehicle,or rental vehicle reimbursement.

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lawrence

05-17-2004 20:40:49




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 Re: Re: New Diesel Pickups? Lets be Nice in reply to Mark, 05-09-2004 09:31:10  
I grafted a perkins diesel from a massy 510 combine in my 79 chevy 1 ton about 10 years ago and get about 24 mpg. average. Sure beats 10 mpg. the 350 gasser got! The tough part and most expence was mating the 4 speed tranny, aprox.$750.oo. The best part is no fancy electronics to fail.



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