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Commutator

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Ron

10-21-2002 18:29:04




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Had my Model F running yesterday - turned over and started easy. Heavy rains here in Texas today. Tractor is under cover and put plastic over the engine. Tonight, I cannot get her to fire and (for lack of any other logical explanation) I suspect the commutator. How susceptible is the commutator to moisture? Would non-direct moisture be enough to foul the connectors (they appear dry)? Will it dry on it's own once the rain and humidity blow through or do I need to manually dry it (and if so, how)?

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Ron

10-21-2002 19:49:01




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 Re: Commutator in reply to Ron, 10-21-2002 18:29:04  
More info:

Disconnected a spark plug wire, switched to battery and spun - had good spark. This would lead me to believe the commutator is dry. Correct?

Disconnected spark plug wire, switched to mag and looked for spark from disconnected wire. Nothing. I should have seen a spark when turning correct (have a three-way switch which prevents DC to mag)?

In any case, I have spark with the battery and a good flow of fuel to the carb. Still won't start. Any ideas?

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Will@ont.ca

10-23-2002 23:14:53




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 Re: Re: Commutator in reply to Ron, 10-21-2002 19:49:01  
Ron,my buddy has worked and played with the old fordsons for a long time.He sold me one this summer and the one piece of advice he gave me was {if it's raining out or a damp day forget about trying to get it running because you'll be wasting your time].So before you tear in to your tractor to much it might pay to let it dry up a bit.. Good Luck!! WILL



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Ron

10-24-2002 13:56:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Commutator in reply to Will@ont.ca, 10-23-2002 23:14:53  
Will,

Thanks for the advice - am rapidly coming to that conclusion. Finally got her to start, but it was WAY harder than it should be (90 minutes of cranking and SEVERE blisters).

-Ron



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Theman

10-22-2002 11:06:25




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 Re: Re: Commutator in reply to Ron, 10-21-2002 19:49:01  
Ron, if you have fire to the plugs with the knob switched to battery, then your commutator is OK.

You won't have voltage to the coil unless the engine is turning. Henry Ford's magneto is merely a crude AC alternator that only produces voltage when the magnets on the flywheel are passing by the pickup coils at the back of the crankcase. Now, if your engine has worn thrust bearing surfaces (most do), there will be too much air gap between the magnets and coils to get fire at hand cranking speed. To get around this problem on my '23 Fordson I have knife switches to switch from the battery to the magneto once the engine is running. I suggest you try to get it to start and run on the battery first.

If the engine won't start with fuel and spark then you most likely have wires crossed between the commutator and the coils. The firing order is 1,2,4,3. The easiest way for me to find out which coil buzzes at #1 TDC is to remove all the plugs except #1 and crank it over carefully by hand with the battery disconnected. You will then know for certain when the #1 piston reaches the compression stroke. Switch to battery and then you will know which coil is being grounded to the commutator by the buzzing sound. It should be the coil closest to the radiator.

If the properly wired/timed engine will run on the battery (positive ground) then die when you switch to the magneto, you probably have a bad connection in the magneto circuit. Take the terminal plug from the side of the block and check the end of the probe for rust and lightly sand it clean. There is no lead connected to it on the inside so don't worry about breaking an old rotten wire. Check also the point of contact in the hole you just took the terminal plug from. Replace the plug and check all connections to it including the switch contacts.

To prove the output of the magneto, with the engine running put a volt-ohm meter (VOM) set on AC volts on the terminal plug. If there is no voltage present with the engine running, remove the external wire at the plug and read again. If still no voltage, your problem is in the magneto.

Sorry for such a long post but I hope it gives you an idea of several things to check. Oh, one more thing you can do to check the coil connections and isolate commutator problems is to jump a wire from the block casting (ground) to the top terminals of the coil box. With the battery switched on, each coil should buzz in turn. Safety note: When you bypass the commutator you can get a backfire in any cylinder - especially if you have just been cranking the engine to start it. Any gasoline vapors in the cylinder can ignite with or without compression.

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