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Fordson Tractors Discussion Forum

super major 5000 ,, decompession lever?

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maplehillfrm,pat

10-25-2006 20:53:44




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hello all . I went out and started the 5000 today, the battery was of course dead, I think I needs a VR,, IT hasnt been started in a while, it cranked but was hesitant to start, so I pulled the decompression lever up,, started cranking better, but didnt start, I put it back in the down position and it fired off [coinsidence?], down on the lever is off correct, ? I know I have to use it in the winter, but cant remember ..anyway I ran it for about 1/2 hour buzzing some slab wood up, I got a stationary buzzsaw that I got with a 2N I picked up, I run a belt off the pulley and away we go, I also have the woodchipper hooked up to this machine, still using it I have to tell my son, until we get to restore it, thats been 2 year excuse,actually we both like tractors in there work clothes,,, pat

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jmixigo

10-25-2006 21:18:09




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to maplehillfrm,pat, 10-25-2006 20:53:44  
Pat, using the starter an the decompressor at the same time is a NO NO NO! It's one of those things you MAY get away with or you may bend up 5 or 6 valves an crack a piston or two. Very bad JuJu.
The decompressor was added so's a feller could crank er over by HAND to get the oil stirred up a mite in sub zero weather.
You do know bout the "cold weather start" button on the injector pump? Shouldn't even need that above freezeing.
Injector pump timeing is the key on these old tractors-they defined how a diesel engine SHOULD start.
Oh, and ether? VERY VERY bad JuJu!!
I agree a tractor ought to work for a livin, looks good to me.
I' ve got a good starter if yore's is needing help, also a few other parts.

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souNdguy

10-26-2006 07:10:45




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to jmixigo, 10-25-2006 21:18:09  
Hmm.. I'm intriequed by the method of which this tractor employ's it's decompression so that it is alergic to using the starter at the same time.

On jap tractor.. for instance.. my yanmar.. it's 'expected' practice to pull the decomp, spint he engine up to get some oil circulated, and then drop it to start.

What does the sm do that makes this not also workable?

Soundguy



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jmixigo

10-26-2006 07:42:36




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to souNdguy, 10-26-2006 07:10:45  
Sound the rockers are keyed to an eccentric with woodruff keys. The eccentric turns on the rocker shaft to open the valves a bit. The decompressor limiter will wear over time allowing the shaft to turn far enough to create valve to piston clearance issues. When turning by hand if ya feel some thing amiss just stop there and bump back the decompressor. The starter don't feel a thing.
The reprint of the operator's manual I have only reccomends useing it when adjusting valves.

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souNdguy

10-26-2006 10:45:33




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to jmixigo, 10-26-2006 07:42:36  
Sounds like there is only an issue when the machine is worn out of tolerance. I.E. if the limiter is worn. Seems like correctiv maintenance , i.e. keeping the limiter in tolerance to keep the valves from kissing pistons is all that is needed... either that or it was an insuficiently designed system. I'm not a big fan of 'just barely works' engineering.

On the jap tractors.. you can snatch the decomp full to relieve the valvetrain with no chance of pistons and valves touching. I'm much more comfortable with that kind of engineering tolerance. ( did lucas design those decomp systems on the SM? ) (grin)

Soundguy

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maplehillfrm,pat

10-25-2006 21:35:00




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to jmixigo, 10-25-2006 21:18:09  
yea I know about the extra fuel button, and I do realize that the decompression valve is not supposed to be used,, but sometimes in the winter I have to,, so..... is the decompression lever off when it is down??? hahaha,,, I will keep you in mind with parts, ---so far knock wood its been a good tractor, well I am not sure if the starter is bad, when I got it it had 2 12 volts in here, well they went bad, and have been using one 12 volt, with help from another jumping battery it whirls nicely,do I need the 2 batteries,,, well I already know the answer dont I??

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Majorman

10-26-2006 00:47:45




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to maplehillfrm,pat, 10-25-2006 21:35:00  
The two 12 volts were to give you battery capacity to turn the starter.

The Major 5000 needs a battery of around 128 AH. Most 12 volt batteries vary from 30 AH to around 90 AH so using two together connected + to +, - to - will give you what you need.

(AH = Ampere Hour the way the "ability to work" of a battery is measured, some manufactures nowadays use "cranking amps" over a given time).

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Majorman

10-26-2006 07:41:25




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to Majorman, 10-26-2006 00:47:45  
The Major decompressor lifts the exhaust valves off their seat by working on the rocker shaft. This loosens up the valve push rods and these could jump out of position if you spin the engine fast. Some engines have a seperate decompressor valve.

It is a big NO-NO to use the decompressor to start in all the Fordson handbooks.



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FMD

11-06-2006 05:46:29




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to Majorman, 10-26-2006 07:41:25  
Majorman wrote "... This loosens up the valve push rods and these could jump out of position if you spin the engine fast."

jmixigo wrote: "...the rockers are keyed to an eccentric with woodruff keys"

When I had the rocker assembly taken off from my Major I tried to figure out how the decompressor works. I didn"t dissasemble the assembly any further but I didn"t see any indication of woodruff keys because the rockers turn freely on the shaft. I concluded that the portion on the axle where an individual rocker is placed is slightly offset from the portions where the axle goes through the housing or the five "legs". So it has a resemblance to a crankshaft with very small throws (?). Or it may have a completely different structure but anyway it allows the following to happen: When the axle is turned by the decompressor lever the rockers are lowered a bit (like a piston following a crank) causing the valves to open slightly and this actually tightens the valve push rods not loosens them.

Is this right? I started to suspect myself because of what Majorman wrote. It seems that there is nobody that knows more about this subject than Majorman so I must be wrong. But this leads to another question. How does the decomp lever actually work? Could you shed some light to this matter, Majorman.

Sorry about the long post. I"m the kind of person who wants to know exactly how everything works and I have irritated some people in the past by making a lot of questions.

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Majorman

10-27-2006 00:39:18




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 Re: super major 5000 ,, decompession lever? in reply to Majorman, 10-26-2006 07:41:25  
Its a pity I won't be around to see if the Jap tractors work as well as these old girls when they are 50 years old! Certainly the Jap cars don't last like they were supposed to.



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