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Fordson Tractors Discussion Forum

Variations in Exhaust Temperature

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Woolman

03-09-2005 07:13:53




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Gentlemen, I recently purchased one of the infra-red temp gauges now on the market. With it I measured the exhaust temperatures at various spots on my exhaust manifold. I have a '62 Super Major that smokes badly when idling, though at higher RPM the exhaust cleans up. After running the engine for a half hour, partly under load, I found that the front cylinder runs approximately 75-100 degrees (F) lower than the rear three cylinders. I took these measurements with the engine at approximately 800-1000 RPM. It's hard to get a specific reading since the temperatures fluctuate quickly, but a kind of average is possible. Given this discrepancy, do you think the front injector may be bad, or is there a more serious problem? Mark, you and I have talked about this. What is your take?

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hh

03-15-2005 04:01:59




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Woolman, 03-09-2005 07:13:53  
I suppose that the temperature difference may be caused by the fact that the front cyl. is the closest to the water pipes. The cold water that comes from the radiator hit the no. 1 cylinder walls first. Try to measure the temps from other engines and compare. Maybe you get similar results. I've also read that the previous Fordson models had just this kind of problems due to poor desing. Maybe they reused the old desing in the new Major? Just my 0.02 Eur worth.

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Jerry F

03-13-2005 07:51:23




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Woolman, 03-09-2005 07:13:53  
My super dexta smoked very badly when it was last run before I got it. I had the injectors rebuilt and 95% of exhaust smoke is cleared up. Since you have extra injecters I would go there first.



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Dave Matt

03-10-2005 09:36:11




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Woolman, 03-09-2005 07:13:53  
On the smoking at low engine speed issue - if you have the vacuum governor, it might be a bad diaphram in the governor housing on the injector pump. I was having the same problem with my Super, and my diaphram had a tear in one of the pleats. I patched it up with some silicone and the problem went away. My theory is that with a hole in the diaphram and the loss of vacuum, the governor doesn't decrease the amount of fuel it gives to the cylinders, but with the tractor at an idle, the flapper in the intake is closed, restricting the air flow to the cylinders, causing them to run too rich, thus the smoke. Might be worth checking out - the diaphram housing isn't too hard to take off. I won't know how long the silicone patch will hold up until I start haying this summer. A new one is still available from NH - I was quoted a cost of about 60 bucks from my local dealer, so the silicone fix seemed like a good gamble.

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Woolman

03-10-2005 10:00:38




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Dave Matt, 03-10-2005 09:36:11  
Thanks, Dave. Mark S and I just recently changed out the diaphram unit. The old one was definitely bad, and we replaced it with one that works really well. What is happening with the engine -- smoking and variations in cylinder temps -- seem to be additional problems. Majorman thinks I'm under-utilizing the engine, which is probably the case. But I still don't know why the front cylinder runs so much cooler than the others.

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Majorman

03-09-2005 09:22:00




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Woolman, 03-09-2005 07:13:53  
Can I ask what you use your tractor for?



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Woolman

03-09-2005 16:12:59




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Majorman, 03-09-2005 09:22:00  
Majorman, you certainly may ask. So far I have used it to pull out brush and small trees. I've welded a loop to the front and have a chain attached to that. I back up and use the differential lock for traction. My prospective plans are to attach a box scraper so I can level some areas for garden. Other than that, well, I guess you'd say I just play with it, driving it around my five acres.



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Majorman

03-10-2005 01:59:49




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Woolman, 03-09-2005 16:12:59  
I think that your smoke problem is lack of work. These engines were designed to work under maximum load at all times. Your problem is a common one where the tractor is not used hard. This is a problem with all diesel units not just Fordson. I have seen all makes smoking and pouring oil from the exhaust when used on light duties. I think your scraper may sort all your problems.



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Woolman

03-10-2005 09:55:46




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Majorman, 03-10-2005 01:59:49  
Thanks, Majorman. I'll get the scraper when I'm back in town next week and we'll see how this affects the smoking. Do you have any thoughts concerning the discrepancy in cylinder temperatures? Thanks.



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ebbsspeed

03-10-2005 12:49:16




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Woolman, 03-10-2005 09:55:46  
I'm not familiar with how these are laid out, but will assume that there is an engine fan that is closest to the front cylinder. The air from the fan would probably account for the exhaust manifold being slightly cooler near the front cylinder. Could also be slightly down on compression, or possibly an injector that isn't atomizing well.



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Woolman

03-10-2005 12:55:51




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to ebbsspeed, 03-10-2005 12:49:16  
Hmmm... Yes, the fan is closest to the front cylinder. Hadn't thought of that. But 100 degrees F. difference? My guess is that a bad injector is at least part of it too. I've only just learned of the former owner, so I'm going to call him and find out if he's had the tractor engine rebuilt recently. That might answer the compression concern. I've only owned the machine a few months. Thanks for your input, ebbsspeed.

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Majorman

03-11-2005 00:09:11




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Woolman, 03-10-2005 12:55:51  
If you had one bad injector the smoke would come spurts and the engine would misfire. You wouls also here a loud knock. If the injecto was not letting fuel in, no smoke. If it was letting too much in, smoke and loud knock.

There is a possible weak cylinder and the smoke you see is oil smoke but in a lot of cases it can also be due to the carbon seal on the pistons being washed away by oil and diesel due to the engine never reaching a good working temperature for any lenghth of time, stop start running etc.

Manifold temperature is just a red herring in my book.

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Woolman

03-17-2005 17:59:16




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Majorman, 03-11-2005 00:09:11  
Thanks to all of you who have tried to help me figure this out. I measured the manifold temps again today, and the front cylinder was running at 135 degrees while the rear three were in the 200 degree range. Perhaps, as Majorman says, it is a red herring to see this as a problem. I'll wait until Mark S helps me change out the injector and/or remove the head to come to any conclusions.



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Mark 1

03-11-2005 16:20:25




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Majorman, 03-11-2005 00:09:11  
Sorry, I only can get on here every week or so.

I have three extra injectors to try first. Then it is pulling the head to see if anything can be found there. Let me replace the injectors then we can order a head gasket and take a peak inside. Pretty easy to do. Remember someone has replaced the head gasket recently and they might have covered up a problem or gave up on a problem they saw inside.

Going to Montana to buy that loader from Wilson, this weekend hopefully.

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Woolman

03-12-2005 08:11:25




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 Re: Variations in Exhaust Temperature in reply to Mark 1, 03-11-2005 16:20:25  
Thanks Mark. I hope the loader works out for you. I"m in California over the weekend and will be back in Oregon middle of next week. Call me some time when you see yourself coming down and we"ll make arrangments to do the injector work.



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