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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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carburetor frosting

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glenmorebuckman

12-30-2007 13:23:19




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What causes a carburetor to frost up? My TO-30 has been doing this for the last couple of days and it stays this way until the engine is warmed up real good.




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toolman

01-01-2008 19:34:29




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
I just stick a piece of fiberglass pink on mine and it works well until spring.



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s19438

12-31-2007 09:23:11




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
have had the same problem with my to-30. i try to park it so the sun hits the carb as soon as possible. other than that i keep an old hairdryer handy to warm up the carb. before starting.



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Randyr

12-30-2007 21:01:21




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
I added a warm air duct to my 35 by taking off the rubber inlet to the air cleaner canister and attaching a tube down to the #4 exhaust on the manifold. It's the metallic type of tube used on vehicles of the 70's and 80's under the air cleaner snorkel.
Works for me.



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Gene Stevens

12-30-2007 20:13:16




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
This happens with aircraft all the time if you do not pull the "Carb Heat". They have the fortune of having a built in safety.



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elifish

12-30-2007 17:52:53




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
Everyone's answer so far to your post is correct. One more thing, often a carburetor can ice from not having the proper air cleaner or oil in an oil bath type as the air flow is meant to be just a little bit restricted by the filter The excess airflow however slight can exaggerate the refrigerating affect.



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glenmorebuckman

12-30-2007 17:14:50




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
Thanks for the very helpful post guys!



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Jerry/MT

12-30-2007 16:52:49




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
This is completely normal. When the temperatures are less than ~50F and the humidity is high condensation can form due to the low pressure formed ( and attendent low static temperature) in the venturi (or at idle around the nearly closed throttle plate) plus the evaporative cooling effect of the fuel. Mostly you"ll see it on the outside where it is totaly harmless, but at very high humidity, it can ice up the metering nozzle in the venturi and you"ll have rough running. If you let the engine run til the manifold gets warm, it is self clearing most of the time. Short of heating the inlet air (like they do in recip aircraft engines), there"s nothing you can do to prevent it from occuring. Some people that have had chronic problems with this have placed sheet metal "contraptions over the intake and exhaust manifold in such a way as to speed up the heating of the intake manifold.

Fuel additives don"t help with carburetor icing. They only work to keep the water in the fuel bowl,tanks,and sediment bowls, low spots, etc from freezing and blocking the passages.

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Bob

12-31-2007 11:43:23




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 Carburetor ICING Jerry/MT in reply to Jerry/MT, 12-30-2007 16:52:49  
Jerry/MT,

Gotta disagree with your statement: "Fuel additives don"t help with carburetor icing. They only work to keep the water in the fuel bowl,tanks,and sediment bowls, low spots, etc from freezing and blocking the passages."

Fuel additives DO help, at least to a certain degree, with the internal icing in a carburetor that is the actual cause of poor running, as apposed to the visible ice on the OUTSIDE of the carburetor.

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Jerry/MT

12-31-2007 12:17:09




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 Re: Carburetor ICING Jerry/MT in reply to Bob, 12-31-2007 11:43:23  
Bob,
I have to respectfully disagree. Having worked in the sircraft industry as a Propulsion Engineer during my professional career (34+ years), we would have loved for some type of carb anti-cing additive to be available to put in the fuel. (Chevron Research and others worked on this problem to no avail, unless there is something more recent that I am not aware of.)

The problem is that internmal carb icing is not caused by water in the fuel. It"s caused by ambient humidity the same thing that causes the external frost to form. The lowered static temperature that results from the high velocities in the carb plus the evaporative cooling of the fuel cool the metal well below ambient temperature.
The same type of icing (less the evaporative cooling effect of the fuel)is prevalent in the inlet and on blades and static structure near the compressor face of gas turbine engines and for the same reason; high ambient humidity. That"s why bleed air from warm parts of the compressor are ducted to the vanes and in some cases the spinners to preclude ice formation.

Water in the fuel is a whole other issue.

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Bob

12-31-2007 22:28:07




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 Re: Carburetor ICING Jerry/MT in reply to Jerry/MT, 12-31-2007 12:17:09  
We ain't fly'in no planes here!



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Jerry/MT

01-01-2008 11:36:53




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 Re: Carburetor ICING Jerry/MT in reply to Bob, 12-31-2007 22:28:07  
Have a Happy New Year!



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Bob

12-30-2007 13:52:11




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 Re: carburetor frosting in reply to glenmorebuckman, 12-30-2007 13:23:19  
When the air passes through the carb's venturi, then expands it cools, along with the gasoline that's been added, which also requires heat to vaporize, there's a refrigerating effect, and, hence, carburetor icing.

The ice on the OUTSIDE of the carb hurts NOTHING, however, the formation of ice INSIDE the throttle bore and cause fuel starvation OR flooding.


E-10 gas, or adding "drygas" can reduce the formation of ice INSIDE the carb, and make for better running.

And, as you say, it's better as the engine warms up.

For extreme cold and icing conditions, guys have added a warm air intake, for instance, a housing around the muffler, through which intake air is drawn, ro warm it.

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