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54 TO-30 Wont Stay Running! HELP!!!

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70mav

03-21-2007 15:29:55

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Hey there everyone! I recently purchased a used TO-30, which ran fine. I used it all summer on various projects and it operated perfectly. I disengaged the rear hydro with the lever, removed the grading blade I had mounted on back, and continued using the loader to work on my driveway.

When I reattached the blade a weeks later and re-engaged the rear power, it suddenly bogged down and quit. It seemed like it was too much for the old girl. I tried to get her going several times to no avail. I then took the grader off and disengaged the rear power again, and continued to use the bucket.

This worked for about 30 minutes, then it started running rough and quit again. Like it was straining the motor too much. I nursed it into my garage, where it has sat all winter. I have replaced the points and condenser, charged the battery, and even replaced the govenor spring which was missing. Nothing seems to help. When I started it up last time, it idled for 5 minutes, then quit as soon as I put it into gear and let out the clutch. Then it didn"t want to even idle anymore and I had to play around with the choke to keep it running.

If anyone has any suggestions, help would be greatly appreciated!

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gshadel

03-22-2007 13:26:41

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Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Running! HELP!!! in reply to 70mav, 03-21-2007 15:29:55

Totally sounds like an ignition problem. Poor running & low power problems are ignition related more than 50% of the time, poor fuel flow maybe 40% of the time, other things maybe 10% of the time. Holding out the choke to keep'er running is just another indication of a weak spark. A rich mixture burns easier than a lean mixture, which is why you choke to start a cold engine. The good news is ignition problems are usually cheap, or free to fix.

Run through Jerry's checklist for spark & fuel flow. My guess is you will find the problem pretty fast.

You don't mention if your '30 is 6 volt, or 12V conversion. The #1 most common problem with 12V conversions are conversions done poorly that result in.... ignition problems! Either way, you need Jerry's fat blueish white spark and cow peeing on a flat rock fuel flow. A orange yellow spark is no good.

George

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CENTAUR

03-21-2007 18:10:25

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Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Running! HELP!!! in reply to 70mav, 03-21-2007 15:29:55

You only have this trouble after the power of the engine is engaged to everything to the rear of the clutch.It seems that is where the problem is.I hope I am wrong for your sake. CENTAUR

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Jerry/MT

03-21-2007 16:09:23

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Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Running! HELP!!! in reply to 70mav, 03-21-2007 15:29:55

Check the spark first. Pull the center wire out of the distributor cap, hold it near a good ground, turn on the ignition and try a start. You should have a FAT, BLUISH WHITE SPARK. if its blue, yellow orangey, etc that's not a good. it has to be a FAT BLUISH WHITE SPARK. If it's not, you need to check the primary ignition circuit. Make sure your points are set correctly and are not oily, dirty, or corroded. Make sure that your coil is set up with the correct polarity. The wire from the coil to the distributor must be the same polarity as the ground for the battery. Make sure all the connections are "bright and tight". While you have the distributor cap off to check the points, rotate the engine til the points are closed and push from the side on the distributor shaft. You should see no motion at the points. Check the spark again. If the system appears up to snuff try a start and let it run for 15-20 minutes. If it dies or won't start, put a jumper around the key switch to isolate it from the circuit. Try a start and if it continues to run for say 15-20 minutes after you do that, replace the key switch. If it still won't start and run, but has a FAT,BLUISH WHITE SPARK, go to the next paragraph.
If you do have the requisite FAT, BLUISH WHITE SPARK, then check your fuel delivery to the carb. Open the fuel valve at the tank and holding a suitable container under the carb, open the drain plug. Fuel should gush out CONTINOUSLY, like a cow peein' on a flat rock. if it doen't, check the "secret filter" in the carb fuel inlet elbow, look for kinks in the fuel line and check the little filter in the sediment bowl to make sure that it's not clogged. Check the vent hole in the fuel cap to make sure it's open. Work back from the carb to the tank to see if there s a clog somewhere. It could be in the fuel tank itself in which case you'll have to remove the fuel valve. These old machines were parked in a blackberry bramble in the N 40 and all manner of crap and corruption can be found in the fuel tank. If you can't find a clog and still do not have fuel delivery, wrap the side of the carb with a wooden block a couple of times. if th float is hung up, that should free it and restore fuel flow. If it doesn't, you'll have to remove the carb because you either have a plugged float valve ot thaere is so much crap in your fuel bowl that your float won't drop,
Do these things systematically and report the results back.

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Gerald J.

03-22-2007 17:07:54

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Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Running! Good list ex in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-21-2007 16:09:23

You missed one problem. That's the fuel line plugged with varnish and crud. I've seen that too, happened to the Wisconsin engine my dad bought new in 1951 to build into his garden tractor. Must have been 15 years ago now. I reamed it with a wire and it went back to work. Before that it would only idle.

Gerald J.

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mike a. tenn.

03-22-2007 17:20:20

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Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Running! Good list ex in reply to Gerald J., 03-22-2007 17:07:54

that's the reason for the "cow peein' on the flat rock" test at the carb.

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Gerald J.

03-22-2007 20:43:15

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Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Running! Good list ex in reply to mike a. tenn., 03-22-2007 17:20:20

Certainly, but he didn't allow for a plugged line, only plugged filter or screen or tank vent, but it can also be the line, none of the screens, or some clog in each component including the pipes.

Gerald J.

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mike a. tenn.

03-21-2007 16:23:44

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hey jerry! ....Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Runnin in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-21-2007 16:09:23

....do you have these instructions on some kind of quick link so you don't have to type them out about twice a month or more? if you don't you should as often as you do it. by the way, these are the best instructions out here for figuring out SO many minor problems. like my uncle used to tell me years ago (when motors were simple)...if it ain't 'lectrical, it's fuel, if it ain't fuel, you probably got a problem.

-mike

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Jerry/MT

03-21-2007 16:50:31

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Re: hey jerry! ....Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Ru in reply to mike a. tenn., 03-21-2007 16:23:44

Yep Mike, I type 'em out one at a time. I firmly believe in the systematic approach to troubleshooting and it amazes me that so many people follow the Theory of Stumbleonious (change all the components and hope you stumble on the solution to the problem). It also amazes me that the first step for the inexperienced is to "get a new carb". Hell these old Marvel-Schebler's are about the simplest carb around and they are rugged enough that you could use them to drive a railroad spike and not effect the way they work on these Continentals. Worst thing that happens to them is they get dirty from all the crap in the fuel tanks.

I try to consistently approach trouble shooting by starting out with the ignition since it is responsible for 80-90% of the problems.( Your uncle is right.)I hope I'm making some converts to this approach, but some days it sure doesn't seem like it.

It gets a little old typing in the same advice day after day but someone has to do it. I'm doing my part to help keep this old iron running.

Thanks for the kind words.

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gshadel

03-22-2007 13:54:17

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stumbleonious! in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-21-2007 16:50:31

Jerry, I can't find stumbleonious in Wikipedia...

Seems like a lot of auto repair shops practice that mentality also.

I suffered a case of stumbleonious many years back with a '81 Rabbit, fuel injection problem. I spent ~$200 on various fuel injection parts, then about $50 on a manual & multimeter, then about $30 for the right part, which was actually an IGNITION PROBLEM...not a fuel injection problem! Lesson learned, the service manual is the 1st thing I buy, and I'm still using that multimeter, which has come in handy more than once troubleshooting charging problems on my TO-20. There! I rambled enough to work-in my TO-20 so this is not an OT post!

George

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Jerry/MT

03-22-2007 18:19:50

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Re: stumbleonious! in reply to gshadel, 03-22-2007 13:54:17

I had to come up with something descriptive of that " start replacing everything all at once and hope that it works" process, George. That was all that came to mind. You know it's not only folks messing around with old iron that have this problem. I worked in the aircraft industry in my professional career and there was surprisingly some of that with people you would think were trained to know better. People get in a hurry and want to find a quick fix and they don't want to "waste the time" to take a few voltage measurements when they are positive it'll be fixed by a new carburetor! They actually waste more time by that process than by cooly making some measurements and simple checks and analyzing the results to find the root cause of the problem. They also waste a lot of money buying parts that don't need replacing. Thankfully not everybody is like that and these forums are a good way to educate more people into systematically approaching the problem. I even recommend that inexperienced people write the results of the tests down for future reference and also report back the results of their investigations and analysis so that the experienced people on this forum can help them learn. Few do that however.

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mike a. tenn.

03-22-2007 18:23:46

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Re: stumbleonious! in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-22-2007 18:19:50

uh...that'd mean i'd hafta learn how to write first tho.

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TexMac

03-21-2007 22:17:57

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Re: hey jerry! ....Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Ru in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-21-2007 16:50:31

Jerry, Thought I was the only one here that believed "carburetor" was a French word that meant leave it alone, the problem is in the ignition. My Dad-in-Law, the best mechanic I ever met, taught me that when I was a kid dating his youngest daughter. Keep up the good work with the newbies.

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Jerry/MT

03-22-2007 17:59:52

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Re: hey jerry! ....Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Ru in reply to TexMac, 03-21-2007 22:17:57

Your dad-in-Law is a wise man!

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Bob (Aust)

03-22-2007 02:00:52

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Re: hey jerry! ....Re: 54 TO-30 Wont Stay Ru in reply to TexMac, 03-21-2007 22:17:57

Transmission in neutral, PTO disengaged - does the engine start and run OK?

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