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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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12volt positive ground???

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rusty nut

03-05-2007 17:45:59




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a 12volt system can be positive ground,never heard this before?




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Jerry/MT

03-05-2007 20:31:45




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 Re: 12volt positive ground??? in reply to rusty nut, 03-05-2007 17:45:59  
It can be with a generator. With an alternator it's almost allways anegative ground. Never heard of a positive ground alternator but I don't think there's any physics that says there can't be.



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Dell (WA)

03-09-2007 23:44:32




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 Re: 12volt positive ground??? in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-05-2007 20:31:45  
Jerry..... .the reason for NEGATIVE GROUND 12-Volt ALTERNATOR has to do with early transistor radios. The germanium audio power amplifier transistors (NPN) TO-3 case was HEAT-SINKED to ground (radio case). The diodes in the triodes needed HEAT-SINKING too. Manufacturing the diode shell so the P/N junction was also the shell solved heat-sinking requirements too. (we're talkin' 1950's transistor and semi-conductor technology, here)..... ....Dell, who has CRS

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John (TR)

03-06-2007 08:29:53




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 Re: 12volt positive ground??? in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-05-2007 20:31:45  
I've seen a couple of 6 volt pos grnd alternators on ebay sold as genny replacement. If I were replacing a genny with an alternator I'd be headed for 12 volts for sure, not sure who the audience is for 6 volt pos gnd alt.



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Jerry/MT

03-06-2007 10:31:26




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 Re: 12volt positive ground??? in reply to John (TR), 03-06-2007 08:29:53  
I would imagine that 6V positive grounds are a rarity, John. Imagine finding parts if you had a regulator fail, etc. If I were going to go through the trouble of converting to an alternator, I would go to a 12V system. There are a lot of advantages to 12V systems, especially with the ignition system performance.



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Gerald J.

03-05-2007 19:38:37




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 Re: 12volt positive ground??? in reply to rusty nut, 03-05-2007 17:45:59  
Jd 3010, 3020, 4010, and 4020 gas and LP came from the factory 12 volt positive ground.

So long as the battery, coil, and ammeter have appropriate connections, and the operator doesn't blindly jumper, either positive or negative ground works the same. Changing requires swapping those three connections and then polarizing the generator so it puts out the correct polarity. Alternators can be had with either polarity or even no ground so they could be run either way, but alternators other than negative ground are uncommon.

If you run the battery opposite of what the cables were supplied, one clamp will be loose and the other won't go on without a lot of reaming. The posts are different size to make that difficult so that the battery gets connected properly by those who can't perceive the + and - marks.

The coil needs the + terminal to point to the + batteryh terminal, and the ammeter needs to be wired so it deflects - with load, and + with charge. There are only two ways to connect the ammeter. Right and backwards.

Gerald J.

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toolman

03-05-2007 18:39:59




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 Re: 12volt positive ground??? in reply to rusty nut, 03-05-2007 17:45:59  
I was just out tinkering with mine again , it starts better, runs smooth.



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John (TR)

03-05-2007 18:28:41




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 Re: 12volt positive ground??? in reply to rusty nut, 03-05-2007 17:45:59  
I believe that the generators don't care about pos or neg ground assuming everything else is wired accordingly. Automotive alternators which are used frequently on tractors have the internal parts (regulator) configured for neg ground and hooking them up pos ground burns out the diodes.



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