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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Crank shims

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Matt L

03-03-2007 17:57:29




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Was assembling my TO 30 short block the other day and went to set the clearance for the end play. Low and behold It dont turn over now :D


Anyone have some shims they would wanna sell me or something?


Thanks

Matt




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Ed H-OH

03-04-2007 07:09:28




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Matt L, 03-03-2007 17:57:29  
Hello. I'm not sure but i don't think they use shims in the ferguson engines, Older allis chalmers and wisconsin did. My first two guesses would be you've mixed up the main and or rod caps. The mains are usually numbered from front to rear as they must be in the order thet they were when it was line bored, (2) It's possable you got bearing shells for a crank that has been turned down and yours has not been turned. Both of these will cause a tight crank. Connecting rod caps must be kept on the same rod as they were bored as a set and no too are the same Hope this helps-ed

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gerard

03-04-2007 09:46:34




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Ed H-OH, 03-04-2007 07:09:28  
Sorry to disagree with Ed and Jerry, but shims are used to regulate the crank endfloat. They sit infront of no 1 main bearing. Too few shims will lock the crank up.



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Jerry/MT

03-04-2007 14:38:16




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to gerard, 03-04-2007 09:46:34  
Respectfully, on the TO-30 the shim(s) actually sit between the two thrust washers which sit between the first throw of the crank, where one of the thrust faces is located, and the #1 bearing, per the shop manual, Fig. 93.



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Jerry/MT

03-03-2007 18:18:29




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Matt L, 03-03-2007 17:57:29  
How are shims going to help you if the crank won't turn?



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Matt L

03-03-2007 21:11:45




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-03-2007 18:18:29  
To gain the clearance I need, so the crank will turn.



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Jerry/MT

03-04-2007 14:27:18




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Matt L, 03-03-2007 21:11:45  
Yeah, I understand how they are used for end play but if your crank won't turn, it won't help that problem. The shims you are looking for adjust the crank end play between the thrust face on the front throw (behind the #1 bearing journal) against the thrust washers. They fit between the teo thrust washers. The end play is usually too large and the shims take it down.



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Matt L

03-05-2007 00:14:42




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-04-2007 14:27:18  
Most of my problem might be that the front main in the block might be thicker- do to the fact that this isn't the original block anymore.


At most I should need 20 thousandths in shims I figure.



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gshadel

03-05-2007 10:30:51




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Matt L, 03-05-2007 00:14:42  
Matt, those shims can probably be obtained from a Massey dealer, or... call a good AG/engine machine shop in your area. They probably have shim stock and can cut them for you.
I'm not 100% sure shims is your answer either without seeing what your dealing with, but trust you know what you need. Your crank will be a bit tight after a rebuild. Make sure you have your bearings lubed-up with assembly grease, and you have checked your bearing clearance with plasti-gauge (before the assembly lube). I was worried my poor starter wouldn't be able to turn my engine when I first rebuilt it, it was a LOT harder to turn by hand than when I started.. but the starter had no problem.

George

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Matt L

03-06-2007 23:21:40




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to gshadel, 03-05-2007 10:30:51  
Im assembling this engine at the machine shop where I used to work. Its getting the works - heck even balanced and blue printed.

Seems no one can get shims or even knows what Im talking about. I'll prolly end up using a valve spring shim and notching it for the crank key



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gshadel

03-09-2007 08:58:32




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Matt L, 03-06-2007 23:21:40  
Matt, no reason to cut shims for a tight fit on the shaft. Those shims are real sloppy around the shaft for easy sliding on & off. The OD of the shim is ~the same as the bronze bushing that rides against the block. If you can find shim stock, you can cut them with sheet metal cutters.

George



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kesiladi

03-04-2007 07:58:52




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to Matt L, 03-03-2007 21:11:45  
Ed.H is right. You've probably mixed up the clearances on the main bearing shells and the grind on the crank journals. Assembly order says to install and tighten the main caps (without the connecting rods) and set end play. One thing you should be aware of is the difference in bearings between the TO20 and TO 30 engines. The TO20 front bearing has a lip on it while the TO30 does not. The lip the to TO20 bearing will cause the TO30 to "bind" because you are pulling the crank against the lip and there just isn't that much end play. My 2 cents.

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Matt L

03-04-2007 09:42:25




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 Re: Crank shims in reply to kesiladi, 03-04-2007 07:58:52  
I know about the bearing shells between the 20 and 30. It was major hassel to find straight shell main bearings for a decent price w/o spending a small fortune.

Theres even a diagram of the shims in the manual of where they go.

I even kept everything in order as it was taken appart when this restoro was started ( unless the hot tank ate some.....) All I need is a couple more shims or so the gain the proper clearance.

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