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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Engine oils.

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Bill Brox

09-01-2006 05:20:53




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Yes, this is a popular subject, indeed. Engine oils, what to use and what not to use.

I have a link here.
Link

It is rather technical, but in the beginning you will get a good idea about how different base stocks works for the oil companies. You will also learn that they are classified in different Groups. As you also will see, is that the different base stocks will perform differently in a test engine. This means an engine oil made from one base stock, is not equal to an engine oil made from a totally different base stock.
This in turn means that engine oils from Shell will not perform equal to engine oils from Mobil, simply because they will not use the same percentage of base stocks in their engine oils.
Depending on where they buy their base stocks from, parts of the world, different suppliers.

I have more links, here is a new one.
Link

Here is another one.
Link

As you can see, an engine oil without any additives at all will be API SA, that was before 1930.
API SB came in 1930 and were good up to 1964 when a API SC came. SB have additives to prevent corrosion, and minimise oxydation and wear.
SC have detergent additives too.

This means a API SB oil can be used in a Ferguson TE/TO 20 serie tractor. But, as you also see, API says that later oil specifications can be used because they have better qualities than the older specifications.

In some websites I have been to I find indications that in some cases oil companies promote "non-detergent" engine oils for old engines and for who knows the reason offer API SA oils, maybe to be sure there are no additives in them. But, then they have offered an engine oil that is only to be used on engines before 1930. And is that very wise? .. they are more prone to cause engine wear, worse on oxydation, and they have no additive to prevent different types of corrosion, not only rust, but also corrosion from sulphur that attacks engine bearings. And, to make an API SA oil they are allowed to use the worst base stock oil that is possible to find... base stocks that are more or less given away on the market for free because no one can use them in normal engine oils.

I do not understand this can be a good oil for our tractors.
I must admit I had no idea about the base stocks before now today, but I clearly see that not only contains non-detergent oils less additives or no additives at all... but they can be made from low quality base stocks too. And this is very worrying.

I could never recommend such an oil in an engine at all. To me, the older engines are even more precious than a new engine.

Just my opinion....


Bill

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Bill Brox

09-03-2006 01:45:33




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 Re: Engine oils. in reply to Bill Brox, 09-01-2006 05:20:53  
Well,

I have always thought that API made minimum requirements for the oils, and not specific requirements. But, you all got me worried about my own thoughts in this, so I have just now contacted API to get a qualified answer in this. Just so no one will come gunning for me telling me I am obsolete or just stating my own opinion here.

The answer will be posted here.


Bill



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Jim in OH

09-05-2006 14:23:35




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 Re: Engine oils. in reply to Bill Brox, 09-03-2006 01:45:33  
I am sure that part of the standards are stated as "minimum standards".... with statements like "must exceed" "no less than" etc.... but that is still a standard.. what I was saying was that SA, SB. SC... and on down the line are increasingly higher standards, through about SH now... and modern oils meet the very high standards are now essentially interchangeable.... an SH oil would exceed that SA reqquirements... Here is a link to a site with some good info...

Jim

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Jim in OH

09-02-2006 19:00:52




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 Re: Engine oils. in reply to Bill Brox, 09-01-2006 05:20:53  
The API standards are exactly that.. standards so that we don't have to know from what and where our oil came from... The early standards A, B, C, and on are really a history of lubrication development... Most are obsolete... and what Bill is describing was true back in the 50s, maybe into the 60s.. it did make a difference what brnad of oil you used... The eastern crude was considered better than the western... now API has such strict standards, in order to meet the current standard, it wouldn't matter from what it was made.... even if it was recycled.. if it meets the current standards it doesn't matter (even though there are still small differences from oil to oil)...

And there is no good reason to use oil that does not meet the current standards.. however, you should read some of the archived material... using detergent oil in an engine that has not and has a lot of crude in it, mauy loosen the crud and cause problems before it gets better... JIm

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Jerry/MT

09-02-2006 21:45:25




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 Re: Engine oils. in reply to Jim in OH, 09-02-2006 19:00:52  
Jim , I have read some of the archived material and what I see is anecdotal data, not hard technical data. "I changed to detergent oil and a week later my rods were knocking." The conclusion is that the oil caused the problem. Never mind that the engine had a gazillion hours on it and the tractor was owned by 17 other people before the present owner. I have yet to see any hard case made for not switching to a detergent oil. It may exist. I just haven't seen it.

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Jerry/MT

09-02-2006 10:56:57




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 Re: Engine oils. in reply to Bill Brox, 09-01-2006 05:20:53  
Bill, this is very interesting. I have a question, however.
If the two oils have the same API service clasification, ( e.g. SL) why should a Shell oil perform differently then a Mobil oil, regardless of base stock? Aren't they developed to meet the same requirements. The engine manufacturer's don't say use Brand A or Brand B. They just give you an API classification and the required SAE viscosity requirements as a function of ambient temperature conditions. For example, "Use SAE 5W30 oil with API Service Classification SL."

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Paul in AZ

09-02-2006 08:34:17




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 Re: Engine oils. in reply to Bill Brox, 09-01-2006 05:20:53  
Thanks for the very informative information. I do not use non-detergent oils in my tractors but use a premium quality 10W-30.



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