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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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6v coil ???

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mark from the f

07-17-2006 20:58:04




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Heres my question...do 6v coils require an external ballast? I picked up an nice old fergy over the week end and everything is pretty original-including 6volt set up. Starts 1st crank with 12v jump to starter, however real slow turnover with 6 volt battery.
I am getting 00 cables ready, and checking connections. BUT my curiosity was struck when I wiped off the coil, didn't say 6v or 12v, but did say "use with external resistance" is this a 12v. coil, or are there 6v coils out there that require an external resistance? I thought the external resistance was to protect a 6v coil from a 12v set-up. Anyhow, there is NO external resistance on the tractor. Any suggestions is needed--can I just get a new 6v coil without the need of external resistance? Or do I have to put resistance on the tractor? Seems like changing the coil is much easier? Will a 12 volt coil requiring resistance make starting a 6v system more difficult? Looking for the smarted next step. Thanks, Mark
P.S. Checked timing, and pretty close--she will start on 6v when she is cold, but barely turns over when she is hot....how can I check if starter is dragging? THanks for reading my book Mark

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Jerry/MT

07-17-2006 22:29:42




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 Re: 6v coil ??? in reply to mark from the fort, 07-17-2006 20:58:04  
Most 6 volt systems do not require a resistor in the primary circuit. The problem comes into play when you have a "half breed" system, i.e a 12 V electrical system with a 6 V coil. The doubling of the voltage about doubles the primary current which causes a regular 6 V coil to overheat and fail. It also causes the points to burn prematurely. By placng the resistor in the circuit you reduce the primary current, thus reducing the the cause of overheating.
Your coil stating it needs to have an external resistor is probably what I call a "phony 12 V coil". A true 12 V coil has the reistance built into the coil and needs no external resistor.
Since you have a 6V system, and a 6 V coil, you do not need a resistor nor should you use a 12V coil.

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mark from the fort

07-18-2006 05:17:22




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 Re: 6v coil ??? in reply to Jerry/MT, 07-17-2006 22:29:42  
Thanks Jerry,
So am I correct in thinking-since it says to "use with external resistance" it is a 6 volt coil? Actually it should read, "if using with a 12v system, use with external resistance"?--just trying to learn this stuff. I think I was born with an electrical disability. Do you know a way to check the condition of a coil and of a starter?
I have a nice little volt meter and check genny outputs at battery before starting and while running. Is there a technique for checking a coil and a starter. I really appreciate you time.
I really want to learn more about the electronics of these tractors--that is why I am full of questions. Just be glad I am not your neighbor--I'd drive ya nuts. Ha Ha. Truely appreciative , Mark

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Jerry/MT

07-18-2006 14:03:32




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 Re: 6v coil ??? in reply to mark from the fort, 07-18-2006 05:17:22  
I don't know of any reliable way to check a coil(I'm an aeronautical engineer by training and propulsion engineer by profession so my electrical background is limited.) A resistance check with an ohm meter might be ok and having voltage on the distributor side of the coil when the points are closed and the key switch is closed would show continuity. starter tests usually entail current draw, field and armature resisitance and starter drive tests. I don't have any data for any of these parameters though.

regarding a coil check, I would check the spark at the coil high tension lead by removing the center connection from the distributor cap an attempting a start This will show the overall condition of the primary system and the coil and then by checking the point gap and point condition and finding them to be right, you could infer a healthy coil if you had a fat bluish spark and infer an unhealthy coil by a weak bluish, orangish or yellowish spark.
Not much in the way of electronics in these tractors, just 1940's technology Kettering type ignition system.
I you haven't all ready got one, investin a Ferguson shop manual, owners manual and parts manual. the shop manual will provide you with a lot of info on how the factory installed systems work and the parts manual will show you the parts breakdown which is very helpful. the owners manual will tell you how to use the machine properly. Then there's this forum wth a bazillion years of cummulative experence just waiting to help the new guys and gals.(Yep there are females that get hooked on these old machines so it's not an exclusive "guys only" world.)The archives is a good place to go because the questions in the forum are almost all repeats of previous questions. You can find alot of answers to common problems in the archives.
If you were my neighbor, you'd earn the answers to your questions. I have a small ranch in the Northern Rockies, my TO-30 hauls my pipe trailer and plows snow, etc and I'm pretty busy, so to catch me and ask a question,you'd have to help me!!

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mark from the fort

07-18-2006 14:09:10




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 Re: 6v coil ??? in reply to Jerry/MT, 07-18-2006 14:03:32  
I grew up helping neighbors and visa versa--so I would earn your knowledge, AND enjoy every minute of it. Thanks, enjoyed the response. Mark



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Gerald J.

07-18-2006 08:45:28




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 Re: 6v coil ??? in reply to mark from the fort, 07-18-2006 05:17:22  
Some Chrysler products on 6 volts used a resistor for better performance at high engine speeds. Then the coil was really made for 3 volts.

I'd suggest you use the coil until it fails and then buy a coil for the voltage your system is. Then you'll know. If there is a part number on your coil, a good parts man may be able to identify its aplication.

Gerald J.



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