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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Axle Shims... related to brakes and sure seals (be

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Jim in OH

01-10-2006 13:37:04




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I have the axels and brakes out and now ready for assembly... previously, there were 4 shims, about .015, .015, .008, and .005 (I haven't measured them yet.. just estimates)but they were all on the same side. Also, the thin shim (about .005) came out in pieces (rusted). My questions are this:

1- What is the typical "starting point" on the first side for shimming? Nothing? (as it was before..)

2- A post below (brakes and sure seals) indicates that the shim(s) go against the axel housing... If so, what keeps them sealed? (my shims show some pitting from corrosion and I would be concerned with leakage)

Jim

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gshadel

01-11-2006 09:04:42




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 Re: Axle Shims... related to brakes and sure seals in reply to Jim in OH, 01-10-2006 13:37:04  
Jim, That was my post below on the brakes and sure seals. The shims can go between the hub & backing plate, OR between the backing plate & axle housing. My IT manual shows a pic of the shims between the axle housing and backing plate. Your right, that is less than a perfect seal. The side where I saw the worst oil leak-by on the brakes was the side where the shims were between the hub & backing plate. That seems like a good reason to stick the shims on the back side of the backing plate so any oil wetting thru the shims happens outside your brakes. Gasket the hub to backing plate so you get no leakby into your brakes. I used a thin coating of silicone also for added insurance.

Splitting-up the shims to each side is fine, and probably make the install easier anyway. I had one side with 5 shims, three of them where .005", very flimsy, pain in the behind to get them all lined-up with the hub studs, backing plate, etc. when installed behind the backing plate. I had a heck of a time. In the end, I pulled them back off, gooped each one with a couple daps of silicone and made a "shim sandwich" with all the shims. That made it a lot easier to line-up all the bolt holes. In hind sight, maybe I should have used grease for that instead of silicone though. I had painstakingly scraped down and cleaned each shim, no fun with those .005 shims!
You may find some of your shims have worn unevenly due to the issue John mentoned below, shifting around due to loose bolts. I had a .005 shim that actually had holes worn into it and measured .003 - .005 depending where I measured it. Maybe you could just double gasket one side to make-up for your bad shim. The gasket material I got from the local auto place was .012". The old worn out gaskets I scraped off were .007". The Manual has a blurb about using "standard gasket material that is .008 - .012 for the axle housing(trumpet) re-install". I assume the same applies for the gasket for the hub & backing plates.

The nuts holding the hub on are only torqued to 35 ft/lb... not very tight. After reading John's comment on how they tend to work loose, I decided to use locktite on mine, not the permanent type, but the type that can be broke loose with hand tools.

sorry for the long reply... just went thru all the same stuff so it if fresh in my memory.

George

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Jim in OH

01-11-2006 10:11:32




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 Re: Axle Shims... related to brakes and sure seals in reply to gshadel, 01-11-2006 09:04:42  
Thanks.. I appreciate the long replies... (I don't like it when the detailed discussion goes "offline".) I was going to locktite my studs as well, (blue or maybe red). I hadn't considered silicone (still want paint to stick when I am done) but was considering permatex.... I probably can clean up the silicone good enough. And I guess I'll have to make some shims if I don't have enough, although I may use a few extra paper ones.

Just as added info to complete the subject for the "next guy": the studs are no longer sold by MF anymore and if you order some (I needed two) they send you hex head bolts instead... I still haven't found a source but haven't tried too hard either.

Jim

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gshadel

01-11-2006 12:07:38




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 Re: Axle Shims... related to brakes and sure seals in reply to Jim in OH, 01-11-2006 10:11:32  
third party image

This is what my completed brake job looked like. Why blue backing plate you ask? That was the only color of rattle can enamel I had laying around the garage. I felt like I needed a coat of paint after cleaning it up real good, most the paint came off with the solvent I used to clean it up. Makes for a nice picture anyway.

Hex head bolts sound like they should work fine. Might actually make it easier to line-up the shims, backing plate, and hub anyway. 1/2 of my studs turned out of the hub when I tried to remove the nuts anyway. I ended up using blue locktite to re-install the studs, and on the nuts also.

Jim, I'm in Marengo, OH... where abouts are you?

George

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Jim in OH

01-11-2006 12:57:50




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 Re: Axle Shims... related to brakes and sure seals in reply to gshadel, 01-11-2006 12:07:38  
Depends.. family farm is in Delta, hence "in OH".... but I actually work near Indianapolis, Indiana so I spend most of my time there (more acurately, "here"). Finally got a suitable place and then dragged the TO-30 down one weekend. Got it is all apart in the "barn", as my wife calls it... (she says, "anything with a tractor in it is a barn!!" It is actually a detached shop/garage). Going really slooooo w... I can only get about 1 day a week into it.. I thought I had everything I needed but something pops up about every week.. This week it is one spring for the brakes... not available from the dealer or parts houses.. I will probably take the other one to a brake place and see if they can match it.. The tractor came to me with no brakes on one side (everything gone.. pedals, rods, shafts, shoes, springs, etc.) I bought everything as a package from someone on the internet, don't remember who, probably on this forum... all was sent as expected except for the spring between shoes beside the adjuster..... can't complain though as the price was right... and I'll have to make the long rod to the brake cross shaft... he folded the one he sent into a pretzel to make the UPS package smaller.. :-) Wasn't a big deal as it was homemade anyway... Jim (in IN, too)

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gerard

01-11-2006 06:20:01




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 Re: Axle Shims... related to brakes and sure seals in reply to Jim in OH, 01-10-2006 13:37:04  
I'd put a thick & thin one side, then adjust other side for correct clearance. If turning one back wheel causes the other to rotate in same direction, too few shims have been used. Wheels should rotate in opposete direction. Too tight, & axle ends will weld together through friction -too loose & axle seals will leak as bearing moves around. Its usual to start with too few shims (both wheels rotate same way) and increase shims until opposite rotation is achieved.

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Jim in OH

01-11-2006 07:57:42




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 Re: Axle Shims... related to brakes and sure seals in reply to gerard, 01-11-2006 06:20:01  
Thanks.. this helps.. and I just wanted to add a "note" about wheel rotation for the "next guy" that might be reading this topic...

Transmission must be in neutral. (If not in neutral, then all you will see is opposite rotation with differences in resistance.)



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