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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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6volt positive ground ?

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tim coltman

08-07-2005 07:12:28




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were TEA20 originally 6v positive ground. and does anyone have a wireing diagram with the original colors of the wires on it and were the harness is routed on the tractor. the previus owner tried to replace the wireing and just took the wires and had them draped over the gas tank whatever way was closest. it was a mess and needless to say didnt work for long.




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John (UK)

08-07-2005 07:29:21




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to tim coltman, 08-07-2005 07:12:28  
Yes they were Positive ground. I have a wiring diagram if you need it, email me at :-
fergusontractors at tiscali dot co dot uk



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Bill Brox

08-07-2005 12:27:56




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to John (UK), 08-07-2005 07:29:21  
John, hi.

Both my Fergies have 6 volt electric system. A friend of mine says it will be impossible to start it in the cold winter we have up here... he has a Fergie, but convertet to a 12 volt alternator.

Any opinions ?

Bill



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John (UK)

08-07-2005 13:58:34




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to Bill Brox, 08-07-2005 12:27:56  
Hi Bill, Well I wonder how they used to get along before there were 12 volt tractors, I am curious about that. 12 volt is better, but I don't know of any 12 volt starter that will fit in place of the 6 volt so most conversions still use the 6 volt starter on 12 volts which is ok if the tractor is a good starter but if it isn't it will soon burn the starter out. I suppose you could get the starter rewound for 12 volt, but I don't know anyone who has done it. In either case the ground lead needs to be moved to one of the starter bolts now after all this time as the original grounding point will be no use, this will give it a boost and the starter switch needs to be adjusted properly and making a full contact. Have you never started your tractors in winter Bill, you have similar conditions to Canada and there are still quite a few on 6 volts there and they use them for snow clearance so they must start. Please let me know....John

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John Hess

08-08-2005 09:09:43




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to John (UK), 08-07-2005 13:58:34  
Hello Bill, I have a TO-20 and it is still 6 volt positive ground. I have thought about changing it to 12 volt. I had a 2N Ford that started very poorly in temperatures under 20 degrees with a 6 volt system. My Volkswagens used to be 6 volt also, and I changed one of them to 12 volt. It started much better. It isn't the battery that worries me, its all the other things that have to change (generator, lights, regulator, coil, etc). Do you leave it positive ground or change it to negative (so modern acessories will work)? The higher voltage makes the starter spin faster and that is what makes the tractor start better. The old 6 volt starter has heavier wiring to handle higher current draw in a 6 volt system, it should be OK unless it has other problems. If you go 12 volt are you going to use an alternator?....John

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Bill Brox

08-08-2005 12:11:28




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to John Hess, 08-08-2005 09:09:43  
Well, I have not decided if I want to leave it positive or negative ground, that would depend a bit if I stick to 6 or change to 12 volt

No, one of the reasons I consider 6 volt is that I want to keep my original Lucas generator. I can not find an identical 12 volt generator around here.


Bill



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Justin-PA

08-08-2005 08:36:59




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to John (UK), 08-07-2005 13:58:34  
Still have 6V system on my TO-35. Always starts right up in below freezing weather (we even had a -20°F day last winter). I personally don't believe there is any good reason to switch to 12v (my opinion).



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Bill Brox

08-08-2005 12:13:57




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to Justin-PA, 08-08-2005 08:36:59  
One of our problems in the winter is the low temperature, it easily drops down to minus 20 or colder.

So, I am not sure... What I am sure about, I want a 230 volt heater in the lower radiator hose. That should make wonders... don't ya think ? :-)


Bill



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Bill Brox

08-07-2005 15:46:35




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to John (UK), 08-07-2005 13:58:34  
No, I have never drove or tried to start any vehicle with 6 volt system in the winter.

I see that the original 12 volt battery in a TEA 20 was twice the size of the 6 volt battery they had in the first years.

Would this mean a difference, that I bought a 6 volt battery with more capacity than the original one ?


Bill



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John (UK)

08-08-2005 08:56:27




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to Bill Brox, 08-07-2005 15:46:35  
Bill, The 6 volt battery that was originally fitted to TE20 series tractors was 75 amp hours at 10 hours discharge rate, the 12 volt battery fitted was 38 amp hours at 10 hours discharge rate. If you mean the physical size of the battery, the 12 volt was actually very little bigger than the 6 volt. When you buy a 6 volt battery now, don't buy the automotive type (for a car) as it is not strong enough in its construction and will break up due to vibration on a tractor but you can buy an agricultural type battery, which will last longer and give less trouble. (ask Graham at Holland-Brand about this)...John

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nonac99

08-07-2005 21:36:34




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to Bill Brox, 08-07-2005 15:46:35  
"Would this mean a difference, that I bought a 6 volt battery with more capacity than the original one ?"

In a perfect world the 6 volts measured at the battery would remain at 6 volts when cranking. If this voltage drops down to say 3 or 4 volts while cranking, then charging your battery may help it, buying a new battery and/or one of higher capacity could also help. Before you spend money on a battery though please make sure that you check the voltage an the starter. If the voltage at the starter while cranking is lower than what you measured at the battery while cranking then look for bad connections, check cable size, starter switch, etc.

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Bill Brox

08-08-2005 10:52:03




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to nonac99, 08-07-2005 21:36:34  
Well, I do not own a 6 volt battery at the moment, and I do not own a 6 volt coil either. So, I am in no position to try.
And, I have no idea if my 6 volt control box works either.

The battery wires are gone, so I will put new one on. And press on ends.

Well, I am aware of that the TEA 20 engine is considerably easier to crank than a modern car engine with much higher compression. So, it would not need such a big battery.


Bill

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phil(va)

08-08-2005 18:59:24




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 Re: 6volt positive ground ? in reply to Bill Brox, 08-08-2005 10:52:03  
I'm assuming from your posts that you do not have a shed or heated space for your tractor, like a shop where you could build a fire before you try to start the tractor. I'm also assuming you need to use the tractor in the dead of winter, like for snow removal, etc. In that case, if it is bitter cold and you need it, on a given occasion you can hook a 12 volt fully charged battery directly to the starter if you wish. Just hook one jumper cable to the top post of the starter and touch the other jumper to a good ground on the tractor. (Doesn't matter which is pos and which is neg as starter doesn't care.) Make sure the tractor is out of gear (and key is on) and it should start. Doing it this way will not damage your 6 volt tractor ignition. Of course if you need to do this every day, it will get tiresome, but for an occasional start it will get you by. Better yet, leave the car outside and put the tractor in the garage....

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