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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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3 Point Hitch Woes

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North Bay, Cana

01-11-2005 09:49:10




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Those of you who have read my previous messages know that I had a problem with my PTO and had the shaft, bearing and crown replaced. Prior to that, everything was working fine (until the bearing went). The hitch raised & lowered quickly even in cold weather. Since the replacement, it has been giving me grief.

Last weekend, I was moving a couple of implements with my 3 point hitch, and then, for no apparent reason, the hitch went up and stayed up even with the lever fully down. As soon as I got some weight on it, it went back down. Later, with a bucket on it (quite heavy) and even with me (190 + pounds) standing on the bucket and the lever fully down, it would not lower. It eventually did, but I was trying so many things I don't know what I did that worked.

This morning, I was blowing snow (at about -20 degrees Celcius) and even after the tractor had been running for a while, the hitch took forever to start rising when I pulled on the lever.

I had asked the repair guy what oil he had used for the hydraulics, and I can't remember specifically what he said, but he said it should be changed before summer, so it is a winter oil. (does 90 wt. make sense?)

1. Can anyone explain why the hitch would not lower with the lever fully down?
2. Should I expect the hitch to lift the blower at such a cold temperature, or is that asking too much?

I will also ask the repair guy, but I always like to check with the experts first.

Thanks

Gary

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ZANE

01-15-2005 18:13:35




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 09:49:10  
No way you should be using 90W oil in the tractor drive train in that kind of low temperatures. You should have at least 134 oil in it. Drain that and replace it with 134 or equevelent. Drain all three places so it will be sure to get it all out along with any moisture that may be in there now.Best to have it above freezing so the ice can water can come out.

Ice can cause lots of problems in the oil at that low temperature.

If you don't have one aleady you also need one of my ZANE THANG position control devices to hold what ever height you want the lift to stay at until you need to change it. All operates with the touch control handle.

See the link below.

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bobcaygeon steve

01-12-2005 04:21:59




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 09:49:10  
As usual nobody addressed the question about the actual oil itself. I can tell you there is a big difference between the Esso Hydraul 56 I use in the ferguson and 90 weight gear lube I use in my other tractors. The hydraul 56 in more like aw32 hydraulic fluid. I still think your issues may well be in the oil. John UK you must have an opinion on this. Gary, these other guys are all talking tempatures, its just as cold in North Bay or Bobcaygeon than anywhere else in Canada, unless you in Wawa. I run my tractor all winter plowing snow from -1c to -30c I've never had a problem. In -30 the first couple of lifts are slow but after that in business as usual...

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danct

01-11-2005 13:37:08




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 09:49:10  
gary
seems like all your problems started when you changed the shaft and the oil,so if it was me and only if you have the tractor in a shed or garage i would drain all the fluid out of the rear end ,in the cold it will take over nite with all 3 plugs out,then if you have a Napa parts place they can get you Napa65-205 , 90wt GL-1 gear lube,it should take almost 6 gallons,dont overfill ,all these fluids flow slow in the cold ,i also believe Napa carries a magnetic heat source that you can attach to the belly where the fluid is and it gives just enough to keep the fluid easier to move i did the above with mine and it is fine now
good luck and let us know Danny

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danct

01-11-2005 13:46:23




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to danct, 01-11-2005 13:37:08  
gary
that is a Napa part # i gave you ,i dont know if i was clear
Danny



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bobcaygeon steve

01-11-2005 12:10:48




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 09:49:10  
As I mentioned in the responce I posted above (accident) it sounds like you've got the wrong oil in the rear end and this could be a big part of your problem. Water does get in through the top of the trans/diff case but if it was drained recently that shouldn't be the problem. I would be interested to hear someone else's take on it, But I'm cerain 90w gear oil isn't going to do the job for you, and may well do some damage. You need a second opinion...

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John (UK)

01-11-2005 13:51:50




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to bobcaygeon steve, 01-11-2005 12:10:48  
If you are talking of temperatures so low as -25 you do need a lighter grade but the oil type is the same i.e straight mineral oil to GL1 spec. The fact the massey man doesnt know about the oil grades is not surprising they dont have much to do with these tractors these days and many of the guys who worked on them retired long ago, so they treat them like the newer models which is wrong, but there you go.

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North Bay, Canada

01-11-2005 12:17:24




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to bobcaygeon steve, 01-11-2005 12:10:48  
Steve

Like I said, I'm going to ask the repair guy his opinion and confirm the oil that he used. I can't remember specifically - I think he said 90 wt, but I can't be sure. What I do remember is that he said it would need to be changed before summer arrives, as it was a winter oil.

Steve, do you use different oils in summer & winter?

Is it a big deal to change the oil outdoors in the middle of January when you're as much of a mechanical misfit as I am?

Thanks again.

PS It's supposed to go up to +8 on Thursday and down to -25 Friday night. Can these temperature fluccuations do any damage?

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bobcaygeon steve

01-11-2005 12:33:51




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 12:17:24  
I use the same Hydraul 56 all year round no problems. It would be good to warm up the oil by running it around for a while otherwise it will come out like syrup. Its not a big job. Is your repair guy a Tractor Mechanic?



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North Bay, Canada

01-11-2005 12:41:19




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to bobcaygeon steve, 01-11-2005 12:33:51  
Steve

Yes he is a tractor mechanic - he & his brother own the Massey Ferguson place in our neighbourhood. They are very much respected by people here I've talked to, but he has never heard of this discussion board, so he can't be that sharp (just kidding).

They have toy Ferguson tractors for sale. Once I recover from Christmas & the PTO repair, I may invest in one to decorate my little corner of the world.

Gary

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Al in BC

01-11-2005 14:23:19




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 12:41:19  
North Bay, Contact me on the back burner
alsherhys@shaw.ca

Al in BC



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bobcaygeon steve

01-11-2005 12:58:25




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 12:41:19  
Well that takes the wind out of my sails...
You would think they know what their doing.
Wait and see what some of the other guys say..
Good luck.
If want a second one for a matched set you can view mine on "Photo Adds" she's a beauty.



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bobcaygeon steve

01-11-2005 12:00:21




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 09:49:10  
I posted second comment above by accident, under "fergy 3pth".
Sorry.



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bobcaygeon steve

01-11-2005 11:51:13




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 09:49:10  
You may have ice in the rear end. have you changed the fluid lately? Ice in the rear end of a Ferguson is a very bad thing, I've seen the Hydralic pumps in the rear end cracked apart from ice. Just one possiblity. I plow snow with mine and I change my fluid twice a year once in the fall once in the spring. I've never had a problem. I use Esso Hydraul 56.



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North Bay, Canada

01-11-2005 12:01:29




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to bobcaygeon steve, 01-11-2005 11:51:13  
Steve

Thanks for your response.

The fluid was changed during the holidays when the PTO bearing & crown were replaced.

How does ice form in the rear end?

I noticed on the weekend that the hitch was slow to lift at first, but it sped up after the tractor had been running a while. But then that's when I had the problem of it not going down again even with the lever fully down. Also, it wasn't very cold.

This morning, it was quite cold and even after 30 - 45 minutes of work, the hitch was still slow to lift.

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John (UK)

01-11-2005 13:58:36




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to North Bay, Canada, 01-11-2005 12:01:29  
Ice forms because of the condensation that occurs in the centre axle housing due to the tractor never really getting hot enough to disperse the water vapour inside. Water can also enter through the gear lever and the Hydraulic Control Spring if the tractor is pressure washed or left standing outside.



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Al in BC

01-11-2005 14:27:51




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to John (UK), 01-11-2005 13:58:36  
John (UK)
I found a way to stop the water from getting into the cover over the shift ball. Take a piece of shrink tube. (electrical water proofing tube) and shrink it over the joint at the shifter and the ball cover. Cured my problems. Painted and no one knows the difference but you guys.

Al in BC



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John (UK)

01-11-2005 14:33:22




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to Al in BC, 01-11-2005 14:27:51  
Well Done Al, as we never really get anything like that over here I have only seen it very rarely and your idea sounds good to me . Just wondering what you use un your hydraulics at such low temperatures, look forward to your reply...



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Al in BC

01-11-2005 16:47:03




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to John (UK), 01-11-2005 14:33:22  
Hi! John.
Right now we are at about -10C over here at night then add wind chill.
I run old Harry every day. I leave here in drive to the pto and pump so that I don't forget to engage pump and no chance of drain back. Not that there is much. But keeps the pipes wet and seemingly helps to allow the pump to be up to pressure quicker. I use the regular called for grade, but when I rebuilt the pump I honed and seated far better than what is called for. so maybe the tighter tolerance is being kind to me.

Hope that helps.

NB. In a previous string about what is in your toolbox I mentioned that I had a Tecalemit Plunger Gun. Probably only the fellows over the pond and especially you might recognize.
I can't seem to be able to post pics to my string messages, so send me you email and I will send a pic of the gun. I am allowing my addy to be open.

Al in BC

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John (UK)

01-12-2005 12:55:23




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 Re: 3 Point Hitch Woes in reply to Al in BC, 01-11-2005 16:47:03  
Hi Al, my email is fergusontractors at hotmail dot com....not seen one of those guns for a long time although all the tractors went out with one, well for a long time anyway. Regarding the oil, its when you mention straight mineral oil they think its something from Mars, we tell them every time that its just oil without any detergents and you still get problems....it must be us that is wrong and them right....lol.. I bet Harry is turning in his grave when he reads all this.

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