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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to rem

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Wayne Wiseman

11-18-2004 16:50:56




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I beginning to paint my 1950 Ferguson TO20. Would like to remove the fender skin from the brackets. Some of the bolts has round heads on both side of the skin. Looks like rivets. Can someone explain how to remove these rivets. Also, if I have to grind off the head can new ones be purchased. Thanks




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Jim W

11-18-2004 20:31:22




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 11-18-2004 16:50:56  
Yes grind off the heads. Nuts and bolts make a much easier reassembly if you can stand to be that non-original.
Maybe someone else can answer if the rivets are available.
Jim



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James, UK

11-19-2004 10:01:28




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to Jim W, 11-18-2004 20:31:22  
They are bolts, but a type called coach bolts - they have a round head (so look pretty) but immediately below the head the shank is square (so they don't spin in the hole in the fender/bracket which is also square). After that you have the standard thread onto which the nut and washer go, as usual.

My suggestion would be to grind off the nut and the thread end - less likely to damage the fender skin then.

These days they are commonly used on wooden gates and gate furniture - so your local ag store may stock them.

Failing which, your local coach and cart maker may be able to help when they have finished making the latest high speed tumbril :)

HTH

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John (UK)

11-20-2004 08:45:36




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to James, UK, 11-19-2004 10:01:28  
The "bolts" you are talking about here are Rivets as Wayne says, if there are all coach bolts in it or bolts of any kind they are not original. There were some bolts used in the mudguards but they still used rivets as well. Having said that, it is easier to use "Coach Bolts " or whatever you call them in your part of the world, when you come to replace the wing skins as it is much easier and you can't see the nuts under the mudguards anyway.

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Gerald J.

11-19-2004 20:01:27




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to James, UK, 11-19-2004 10:01:28  
In the USA we call those round headed bolts with square shanks "carriage bolts." Coach bolts aren't known here but are the same thing. Carriage bolts are quite common in good hardware stores. They are really handy in wood framing since they generally need only one wrench to tighten.

Gerald J.



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Wayne Wiseman

11-20-2004 18:41:13




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to Gerald J., 11-19-2004 20:01:27  
About 4 of the rivets (bolts) are on the skin side round headed like a carriage bolt. The otherside backside) of the fender no nut or threads are showing. Looks like a smooth cap. What is a mudgaurds? Is that something that fits over the nut and threads of a carriage bolt?



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John (UK)

11-21-2004 09:47:28




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 11-20-2004 18:41:13  
To remove the rivets you grind them off on the inside of the frame next to the wheel and punch them out. A mudguard guards you from the mud or fends it off..hence fender no doubt...I should have been more careful writing mudguards for you guy...apologies to all.



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Gerald J.

11-20-2004 19:32:00




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 11-20-2004 18:41:13  
I think the British term "mudguards" translates to American "fenders."

If they are rivets on both sides, then it could have been hot riveted, like a lattice work bridge. I think I'd leave them alone, but they could be drilled out and replaced by a carriage bolt with the nuts under the fenders behind the wheels. I don't have a MF-35 to be sure how they are attached. The square topped fenders on my MF-135 were spot welded but one fender has been rattling for years (helped by a tool box on top for a long time). I worked over the bracket but the fender still rattled and flopped, and I discovered a broken weld and put in a bolt and nut with lock washer. Just a plain hex bolt, its not a place I'll be rubbing to be annoyed by the lack of smoothness. It was a pain to drill the hole, and filing it square for a carriage bolt would have be a far greater pain. Now the fender doesn't flop.

Gerald J.

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James, UK

11-21-2004 07:51:31




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 Re: Bolts holding fender skin to bracklets, how to in reply to Gerald J., 11-20-2004 19:32:00  
You're right mudguard = fender. Sorry about that folks! A common language separated by 200+ years and a few thousand miles . . . . .

It could well be that you have the original rivets on your FENDERS, and as John said, that would be the original method the skins were fitted to the frame.

With our brilliant sunshine, and warm weather so famous throughout the world (not), I have never seen the original fit rivets, only carriage bolts. You don't really have to file the hole totally square - it only takes a few minutes just to give the bolt shank something to grip onto.

By the time the 135s were available rivets had been dropped in favour of spot welds (ugh!).

HTH

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