Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Another block question for you engineer types

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Dave in CA

10-19-2004 19:16:12




Report to Moderator

In follow-up to my previous post a thanks to all who answered.

As a result I have located 2 blocks. 1 has apparently never been cracked and the other has been cracked and repaired in Kentucky by a shop that has a long record of succesful repairs using the furnace method of brazing. This block has then been line bored and has been checked for trueness on top. Both are about the same price.

My question is a block that has been repaired more sound than one that has never cracked?

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
John/ Indiana

10-20-2004 14:02:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to Dave in CA, 10-19-2004 19:16:12  
I am right now in possession of a cracked block and have been directed to a machine shop that uses the tension pin repair style. How do I find a shop that does furnace brazing? and what might be the price difference?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob - MI

10-20-2004 07:50:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to Dave in CA, 10-19-2004 19:16:12  
The question was relative to better or worse and the best repair is often a compromise but there are variations that make some better than others. Furnace brazing is probably the best approach that could be employed as opposed to the other repair options that are out there. This is a higher technology process that uses specialized materials and parameters and would be done by folks that are used to demanding applications.

As previously stated, the block gets a stress relieve as a side-benefit and the distortion that comes from it is an indication of the residual stress from the casting and machining process used to create it in the first place.

For my money, I wouldn"t be afraid of the furnace brazed block. I would like to know the name of the processor for future referance.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
steve19438

10-20-2004 06:43:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to Dave in CA, 10-19-2004 19:16:12  
how much does the shop want for the repaired block? just being nosey.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dave in CA

10-21-2004 13:29:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to steve19438, 10-20-2004 06:43:10  
The shop wants $595.00 exchange or $695.00 outright for the repaired block. The unrepaired block is $750.00.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
kev

10-20-2004 05:43:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to Dave in CA, 10-19-2004 19:16:12  
Having worked in process engineering with furnace brazing in aerospace for years, I would have confidence in purchasing a furnace brazed block. The process creates a joint that is incredibly strong, half of the battle has already been won when you say a reputable shop has performed the procedure. This is a very operated oriented procedure. Most of the planes we fly in today use furnace brazing as main joining process for aero engine parts, good enough for me.

Good luck

Kev

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

10-20-2004 17:30:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to kev, 10-20-2004 05:43:56  
I used to work for Boeing and while I wasn't in the manufacturing end of the business, I certainly agree with you regarding the aerospace industry's use of furnace brazing. As far as I can recall, we didn't have problems with the parts that were furnace brazed.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
James, UK

10-20-2004 00:38:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to Dave in CA, 10-19-2004 19:16:12  
As another engineer, I would agree with Jerry/MT's view on the block. Gregg/Ohio also has valid comment on clearance, but that is mainly down to the professionalism of the company doing the work.

Finally may I add that the best cure for any engine ills is to do the necessary preventative maintenance (annual engine flush/anti-freeze etc.) so that the waterways in the block do not get full of crud, and allow 'spot' overheating to occur :)

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

10-19-2004 22:36:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to Dave in CA, 10-19-2004 19:16:12  
While I am an engineer, I have to say that my specialties are not in materials or machining, etc. I will offer these opinions to you for what ever they are worth.

The Continental Z series of engines seem to be prone to cracking in between the cylinder liners, usually as a result of over heating. I hada Z129 on my TO-30 that was cracked and then fixed by using tension rods placed transversley through the water jacket. This repair technique worked well. In 2001, I replaced this block(the engine was wore plum out.) with a remanufactured one that was furnace brazed and have had no problems with the engine. I have seen another engine in a backhoe repaired in this fashion and to my knowledge it has not had any problems. The furnace brazed block might even be better because the furnace brazing may help stress relieve the block and make it less prone to failure. The fact that it needs to remachined is an indication that the internal stresses were relieved. I guess I'm just trying to say that I would not be worried about using a furnace brazed block. hope this helps.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gregg/Ohio

10-19-2004 20:26:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: Another block question for you engineer types in reply to Dave in CA, 10-19-2004 19:16:12  
"My question is a block that has been repaired more sound than one that has never cracked?"

No! it will not be "more" sound,but if repaired right,It may be "AS" Sound as a nonrepaired Block" Also, On a Block that has been Line bored be careful that not so much material had been removed that the cam and crank have moved closer together,this can create a tight cam gear to crank gear clearance problem.(We only line "hone" blocks at our shop here)because it removes much less material. Good Luck with you Z-134 Gregg/Ohio

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy