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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Another TO30 HYD question

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Rob

11-19-2003 09:10:44




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I was out looking at tractors this past weekend and found one that runs good and all seems operate properly. The hydraulics are smooth going up with a plow on the back. They stayed up even with the tractor off for 15 minutes and didn't move. When I lowered the plow it was nice and smooth and could stop any place I wanted. The one thing I have a question about is when it hit the ground the hydraulics would start to chatter, like it was trying to push down by couldn't. Is this normal?? I didn’t think they had down pressure?? Is there something is should check??

Thanks
Rob

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todd

11-22-2003 06:36:40




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 Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to Rob, 11-19-2003 09:10:44  
hi all hope to get some ideas here. i have a TO30 which i am which i would like to use its hydralics to run a log splitter. I have the valve to use and now an trying to find some pressure. i connect a guage to the pipe plug which should be press. port on top of the 3 pt lift cover but no pressure.when i remove the side plate i see no major oil turbulance from the pump or tube.i have had pump apart and pistons are not scored and valves look good i replaced the releif valve but still no pressure? any ideas? also the 3 pt lift arms lift well leak down over time but i see no large amounts of oil leaking from the piston there. thanks again hope someone can give me some clues !! todd

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john(UK)

11-22-2003 11:02:10




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 Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to todd, 11-22-2003 06:36:40  
Will the hydraulics lift an implement on the rear lift arms ok? if it will check the next part of this posting.
When you are trying to get hydraulic power have you prevented the lift arms from going fully to the top? If you haven't you can't get any power because the internal linkage puts the hydraulic pump into idle at this point. So stop the lift arms from going fully to the top and you will have power. When you test the hydraulics try doing it direct, without that valve arrangement you are talking about, see what you get then. If you still have problems after this please post again with more details of what you find if possible.

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todd

11-23-2003 06:52:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-22-2003 11:02:10  
TY John for the reply i put the pump in the tractor and added the oil then checked again for leaks no leaks lift arm work smoothly. pump only works when arms are in the down postion and still no pressure on guage. after think about this and reading your message pressure must only be achieved when the arms are loaded with an implement.i will try that next. i don't know if this tractor will work for my purpose. may need to look for one with live power. thanks again todd

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john(UK)

11-23-2003 08:06:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to todd, 11-23-2003 06:52:10  
Hi Todd, There wont be any pressure till you fasten the lower links down,as you have pointed out the pump doesnt work till the arms are lowered.(actually just part way down) If you fasten the lower links down so they dont go to the top of the lift stroke it will still be trying to lift but cant so you will then get a reading on your pressure gauge. If you put an implement on it all you will get on your gauge is the pressure in the system that it takes to lift that particular implement. The tractor works exactly the same as most others so it will be ok for your purpose. Just remember that when the hydraulic arms get to the top they shut the hydraulics off till they start to drop again...that is why you are not getting a reading on your gauge...

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Todd

11-23-2003 16:30:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-23-2003 08:06:13  
Hi John again TY!! i did hook up an implement today and guess what? PRESSURE!! but only about 400psi not near enough for a log spliter. also i first tried to adjust the quadrant control which is way off and all adjustment is gone.must be some bushing or cams worn out i will take out the arm and see what i find thanks agin todd



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john(UK)

11-24-2003 12:57:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to Todd, 11-23-2003 16:30:14  
Hi Todd, That 400psi that you get is the system pressure needed to lift the implement that you had mounted at the time, if you had used a heavier implement the pressure would have been more. You need to fasten the lower link arms down to stop them lifting to get a proper pressure reading, from what you say I dont think there is much, if anything wrong with your hydraulic system.Unless you prevent your link arms from lifting you will never get a true pressure reading.Dont think there is anything wrong with the quadrant just reset it and try it again.

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todd

11-26-2003 21:19:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD quest in reply to john(UK), 11-24-2003 12:57:43  
Hi John ty for the reply! i have since figured out the pressure with my pump i have check the quadrant lever and is way out of specs. loosed the 4 bolts and found that it has been adjusted out as far as possible i have got the right lift arm off and the left is rusted on have been heating and hammering the past couple days am going to lift cover tomorrow and see what i can find any ideas? also you mention about a temp gauge where was that place? also see in another post of a ford dealer in UK the has a large web site but can't get connected now do you have an idea of whom i am talking about thanks again todd

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DougKirk

11-22-2003 04:19:04




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 Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to Rob, 11-19-2003 09:10:44  
Does it have Zane Thang attached, as I've heard that this makes down pressure for these types of tractors. Also can you lift the lift arm by hand when hyd is in engaged and in down position, as you should be able to raise it by hand. If not you might have zane thang. Rattling very well could be hydrolic pump unit or you could have a retianing pin loose on Hand control fork. You'll have to drian Gear oil from trans in hydrolic area and see if a retianing pin is lying in the drian plug. Or open side where pto is engaged or opposite side to see if retianing pins are there. The carter pins have a tendancy to rust and there is a small amount of pressure added by the jioning of Hand control fork and lift spring conrol fork. Making it easy to break rusting carter pin. Oh one small possiblity is the Quadrant Assmebly could be rusting out on the inside. The rusting will shorten the post that the control lever shaft goes through, and at worst will let the little lip on shaft slide through, making adjusting tension impossible for control lever.The housing for hydrolics area doesn't really have anything churning the gear oil and the top of the area get very rusty, sounds crazy doesn't it. But this will rust upper portion of lift cover and components such as the Quadrant Assembly, Control lever Shaft , and rest of the componets up there. Not to mention the rust falls into the gear oil and makes mud at the bottom of housing. A good cleaning will be neccessary to lessen stress to components in that area and out to rear and trans. You shouldn't have to clean rear and trans as they have moving parts that really churn up that area. Unless you just want too. Well good luck and let us know what it what you do and what it the problem was.

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john(UK)

11-22-2003 11:12:41




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 Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to DougKirk, 11-22-2003 04:19:04  
"Zane thang" is a POSITION control attachment and cannot make the hydraulic system give down pressure. The Hydraulic system on all Ferguson tractors has no provision for making a down pressure unless you add external rams.



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DougKirk

11-22-2003 15:48:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-22-2003 11:12:41  
Where can someone find external rams, if not any ideals on retro fit, or hand made. Willing to try if neccessary. I've operated backhoe for about ten years and just recently purchased ferguson about a year ago. Learned a lot from hands on and this site. I've redone rear end of it and plan on redoing the motor and restoring. Had fun rebuilding starter, and figured rubber bands were easiest way of holding brushes open while putting it back together. Cost me about seven dollars. Have tight budget, but want to do things right Yes you did help me as I had in mind that the Zane Thang gave downward thrust, would have been upset to learn otherwise. Might have left me scratching my head, will try the Fergie Positioner as you've mentioned before, along with rams.

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john(UK)

11-22-2003 15:56:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to DougKirk, 11-22-2003 15:48:42  
There were never any external rams made for this tractor, anyone who did anything with them (not many) usually adapted them from something else. Not many used them to apply down thrust, the ones usually available from other tractors are single acting only and are used as assister rams for lifting. So it would be a matter of searching around looking for something suitable. I dont know of anyone that uses downthrust on a P.H.Borer but someone will come on to tell they do it. What exerience I have had with a P.H.Borer we never needed any downthrust to force it in it was if anything the other way round...to try and keep it from going too deep...and thats where the Fergy Positioner came in...that did it perfectly

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DougKirk

11-22-2003 16:06:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-22-2003 15:56:42  
Thanks for the input. The ground I have is hard clay and can take as long as two hours if using P.H.Bore alone. This is with a couple of guys stand on the positioners for added weight. Went through teeth for this thing in less than half a day. Found hand digging to be easier, geuss I'll add ram to P.H.Bore instead. Again thanks for help



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john(UK)

11-23-2003 03:14:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to DougKirk, 11-22-2003 16:06:35  
I can see you have a problem then if you have hard clay. All I can say is dont use a large ram or you may do some damage to your P.H.Borer and too much pressure and it will try to lift the tractor which will be unsafe and will almost certainly damage the P.H.Borer gearbox A small diameter ram will be sufficient, usual place to mount these is from a plate under back axle (like the drawbar fixing) to one of the lift arms on the cross-shaft under the seat at the top of the lifting links (l/h side is easiest) The ram will need a fairly long stoke to do this so you may have problems finding one suitable. Best of luck anyway.

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DougKirk

11-23-2003 16:50:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD quest in reply to john(UK), 11-23-2003 03:14:57  
Thanks, I will defenitely use this advise.



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DougKIrk

11-22-2003 15:25:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-22-2003 11:12:41  
Thanks for informing me, I was only going the post that I've read in the past about Zane Thang. I don't know much about it and appreciate you informing me. I like what you did to your Post whole digger, if I'm sure I'm talking to the right person. I'd made a big boo boo thinking it gave down pressure when all it does is give you position control. Thanks for opening my eyes, have learned a lot from reading your post and appreciate people such as you.

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john(UK)

11-22-2003 15:31:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to DougKIrk, 11-22-2003 15:25:04  
Thanks for that. Sorry it wasnt me that was chatting about a P.H.Borer, not seent that chat at all so can't help you. As long as everything I said made sense and helped you thats ok...



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Thomas

11-20-2003 11:25:06




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 Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to Rob, 11-19-2003 09:10:44  
Check for free play in the tension spring on the lift cover (Top link connection). If it is loose then the free play is rattling the lever inside which links to the pump control valve. When the plough is in the air it is pulling the spring tight, but when it releases the tension you get into a feedback loop. I'm not familiar with the lift cover on the yankee version, the FE35 has two grub screws (usually siezed and needing heat to remove) to allow the tension nut to be released. Tighten this until the play disapears. If you carry on tightening it the play will reappear as the spring acts both ways. Set at the mid point. If you can't get rid of the play you need to undo the nut and remove the shaft and spring, and tighten the nut on the end holding the spring on..... Not too bad a job as long as you can get everything freed off. Fit a new rubber boot when finished.

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john(UK)

11-20-2003 11:43:30




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 Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to Thomas, 11-20-2003 11:25:06  
You have got your models mixed up Thomas, this is no 35 model its a 30 which is same as a TE or TO 20 only has a bigger engine. We all do that from time to time.



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marlowe

11-19-2003 18:25:29




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 Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to Rob, 11-19-2003 09:10:44  
they do that if your plow is trying to go deeper in hard ground .if you look at your top link it will be pushing on the tractor at the big spring under set. when it pushes in that will rase your 3pt. till the preasure is off. this is normal



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Rob

11-20-2003 08:03:45




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 Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to marlowe, 11-19-2003 18:25:29  
That sounds about right because I was not moving when it was testing it. I was just raising it up and down to see how smooth and strong it was. I think I will have to go back and look at this one again. It was not pretty but is tight and strait. Any ideals on what it might be worth???

Thanks

Rob



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john(UK)

11-19-2003 14:24:58




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 Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to Rob, 11-19-2003 09:10:44  
No they dont have down pressure, was it the pump or the gearbox chattering. try taking the pump and pto out of gear see if it is still makes the noise. if it does its maybe the gearbox...but its quite old so bound to be some play in it..Have you checked the oil level in the gearbox too, if thats low it will chatter.



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Rob

11-20-2003 12:39:46




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 Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-19-2003 14:24:58  
It only makes the noise when the plow was on the ground and you leave the selector in the down position, like it is trying to push it down, even though we know it has no down pressure. When the plow is any where else it is a quiet as a mouse.

Rob



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john(UK)

11-20-2003 10:29:05




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 Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-19-2003 14:24:58  
Well if it's quiet when you put the pto out of gear it must be the pump does it only make the noise when its in the raised position or when it's down on the floor too. If it's when its raised it must wear in the pump. Let us know of anything else you find.



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Rob

11-20-2003 08:00:36




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 Re: Re: Another TO30 HYD question in reply to john(UK), 11-19-2003 14:24:58  
Hi John
I did take the pto and pump in and out of gear and it was nice and quiet. The oil level was full. Everything else in the hyd system works smooth, quiet and strong.

Rob



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