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1952 ferguson not charging

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Anders - master

12-15-2002 12:50:54




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Hi all. Wow, I am so glad I found this message board. I have spent some hours this weekend on a cold Swedish field covered by snow trying to bring an old Ferguson back to life. I need some help. Please someone... Here's the situation: The tractor wouldn't start at all. The old gear lever operated contact that lets the electricity through to the starting motor was in a poor condition. I cleaned it and the tractor started (with some aid from my car). I am absolutely sure there was nothing wrong with the generator before I fixed this contact but now something has happened. When I measure in between + and - on the battry my meter says 11.96 or so. I tried measuring from both contacts on the generator (12 volts neg. ground) but couldn't get any reasonable numbers there. Can someone please let me know if there's a way of checking the generator's max. capacity (i.e. if it is working at all) and how to check if the regulator is working properly. Any help would be highly appreciated.

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Anders - master of jump starting

12-20-2002 03:17:57




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 Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Anders - master of jump starting, 12-15-2002 12:50:54  
Thank you all for the help I have received both through this discussion board and via email. I now have both wiring diagrams and access to your knowledge. I haven't been able to try any of your suggestions yet since the temperature dropped a lot this week in Scandinavia. It is no fun working on a tractor (or anything else) when it is so cold you expect penguins to show up any minute:-) Hopefully I'll have som time to spend on this project during the hollidays. I'll report my results here. Merry Christmas to you all!

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Duner

12-21-2002 16:27:57




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 Re: Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Anders - master of jump starting, 12-20-2002 03:17:57  
And a Merry Christmas to you! Don't overdose on lutefisk and lefse. I am sticking with the lefse and meatballs for Christmas.



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Jim W

12-16-2002 13:54:20




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 Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Anders - master of jump starting, 12-15-2002 12:50:54  
I have a 1952 TEA as well. At serial number 200,000 they did switch to 12 volt electrics, but positive ground. Many have been switched to negative ground since then. To do so, the field winding on the generator has to have its magnetic field reversed. This is done by briefly (maybe 2 seconds) touching the non-ground battery connection to the field (smaller) terminal on the generator. After that the generator will charge the battery properly.
The large tab on the generator is its output. The voltage depends on the speed, and ranges something like from 13-19 volts. The generator's output goes to the regulator, which keeps its own output (terminal "A") at a good voltage for charging the battery (~13.6v).
If everything is working right the output from the regulator should keep the tractor running when you disconnect the battery, but, that's not happening so either the generator or regulator must be at fault.
With the large wire disconnected from the generator, measure its output compared to ground. It should vary with speed as mentioned above. If so, then your fault is very likely the regulator. It is a lot of fun to remove....
Hope this helps,
Jim W in snowy Canada

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Anders - master of jump starting

12-16-2002 14:46:24




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 Re: Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Jim W, 12-16-2002 13:54:20  
Wow, you guys really seem to know your Fergies. I have two furhter questions before I return to the tractor. 1. The wire from terminal "A" on the regulator - where is it supposed to be connected? Mine is hanging loose... I have tested it for electricity and the test bulb stays totally unlit. Already earlier when the tractor was working okay I tested this wire to see if I was risking a short circuit. There was no power in it even then.

2. When disconnecting the large wire from the generator: Shall I leave everything on the Fergie as is including the smaller wire on the generator, then start the engine and start measuring?

It is almost midnight here and snow is falling outside my kitchen window. It would be great to have a working Ferguson to take care of the snow in the morning;-)
Good night guys!

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Jim W

12-16-2002 17:10:28




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 Re: Re: Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Anders - master of jump starting, 12-16-2002 14:46:24  
Good evening,

1. The wire from terminal A from the regulator attaches to the starter switch, at the same terminal as the battery. They used to call batteries "accumulators", hence the "A".

2. Yes, with the tractor running, leave the smaller wire on the generator and remove the bigger one, then measure. The smaller wire energizes the field so that the generator can generate. It has something like 2 volts on it normally if my memory is working.

Jim

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Jim W

12-16-2002 13:59:01




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 Re: Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Jim W, 12-16-2002 13:54:20  
I see Phil says that the charging voltage is around 14.2; I said 13.6. I am not certain how accurate 13.6 is; Phil may be spot on. If I had 14.2 on mine I would certainly be happy with it.
I think it also depends on temperature, if the regulator is working right.
Jim



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Phil (VA)

12-16-2002 14:14:06




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 Re: Re: Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Jim W, 12-16-2002 13:59:01  
I know I like 7 volts or slightly more on my 6 volt Fergies, so times two.... That was my rationale.



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Anders - master of jump starting

12-16-2002 12:43:58




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 Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Anders - master of jump starting, 12-15-2002 12:50:54  
Thanks for the answers. I believe this tractor has it's original generator. Everything seems to match the rest of the tractor. Since this particular tractor was sold here in cold Scandinavia it might have had a more powerful generator than on other markets (Just me guessing). I think I might have come a bit closer to the solution today. I (jump) started the engine and then disconnected the ground cable from the battery. The engine stopped directly. I guess this means there's no electricity generated - right? I also had a look at the regulator. There's a wire hanging loose from terminal "A". It has been that way since I first saw this tractor, and still, it has been charging the battery very well. I am quite sure I didn't do anything wrong when I jump stared the Ferguson. Plus to plus and then minus to a bolt on the gearbox. What is this about polarizing the generator? What is it good for and how is it done? There are two cables connected to the generator. One of them is slightly thicker than the other. I wish I could make this tractor run properly so i could concentrate on it's looks. It looks SAD right now...

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Duner Wi

12-16-2002 19:21:17




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 Re: Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Anders - master of jump starting, 12-16-2002 12:43:58  
Polarizing, I don't know if this will work or not but will quote from my 1956 Motors manual generator section. Before connecting any wires to the regulator connect one end of a jumper wire to the armature "A" terminal on the generator. Then momentarily touch the other end of the jumper wire to any "hot" wire or terminal. Do not prolong this connection after the "flash" has occured.
Note frome me. You said you have two wires at the generator, one should be "F" or field and the other I think is "D" or dynamo. The "D" terminal I believe is the same as "A or armature so what I think will work is touch a wire from "D" to a hot wire to polarize. Another thing I used to do if I remember correctly is to ground the field "F" terminal on the generator to bypass the voltage regulator portion . Now if it charges the regulator is at fault. do not operate very long this way or you will melt the generator due to maximum charging. How many wires do you have at the voltage regulator? Could the A terminal wire hanging loose actually be A1 with the A terminal next to it. The A terminal to my mind goes to the battery and would need to be connected for anything to work. That A1 terminal might be the feed for the coil and lights. I am swinging in the dark on some of this stuff. Good luck!

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Phil (VA)

12-16-2002 08:44:16




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 Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Anders - master of jump starting, 12-15-2002 12:50:54  
You may need to tell us more. I assume you have converted this normally 6 volt pos. ground tractor to 12 volts neg. ground. But then you mentioned a generator. Most of the time when we convert to 12 volts we install an alternator in place of the generator, so that is somewhat confusing. Perhaps you converted the generator to 12 volts, which is possible. You imply that fixing the starting switch may have damaged the charging system, but I would suspect it is at least as likely something you did when you jump started it that caused your problem. You should have about 14.2 volts across the battery when it is running at around 1200 rpm, if memory serves me. I'm not certain the exact procedure for testing the generator vs. the volt. reg., but I have that written down not near me now. Perhaps someone else can help with that. As a last resort you could remove them and take them both to an automotive electrical repair shop and they can tell you quickly and fix whichever is bad.

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Duner Wi

12-16-2002 11:53:06




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 Re: Re: 1952 ferguson not charging in reply to Phil (VA), 12-16-2002 08:44:16  
Phil, I think I read somewhere Fergys other than TEs and TOs may have changed to 12 volt positive ground during the 1951 model year. I may be wrong on this however. Could be as simple as repolarizing the generator . Two different procedures there also, depending if reg, is internally or externally grounded.



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