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FSM Rear Engine Seal Install Question.

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Bill S.

10-09-2002 18:43:17




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Having searched the archives I saw that Brian said the upper half cannot be installed w/o removing the flywheel. Does anyone disagree with that? I have the oil pan down and would like to renew both halves. I've done nothing to the top half yet. With the frontend loader on I am stubborn about splitting the tractor until there is no choice. I have put wick type seals in other engines with the surfaces in place, in-frame in other words. I have various special tools for extraction and pulling the new one. I'm asking other opinions as I don't want to get into a "pickle". There was no serious leakage but they usually worsen right after NOT doing what you think you should. I'll agree it's clearly easier with the flywheel off. I should do the lower half even if the upper half goes undone? Seems like yes but then I'd be half a seal set short someday when the flywheel does come off. All input ideas welcomed. Bill S.

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Gordon in IN

10-12-2002 17:25:43




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 Re: FSM Rear Engine Seal Install Question. in reply to Bill S., 10-09-2002 18:43:17  
If the seal is a woven "rope" type seal there are a number of approaches. 1. Loosen the main bearing caps to allow the crankshaft to "drop" about 1/16 of an inch. then loosen the old seal and use a seal extractor to pull it out "around" the crankshaft. then use a "sneaky peat" seal installation tool to pull the "new" upper half of the seal around the crankshaft and into place using "shim guides" to keep from damaging the seal. Expand the new seal in place and be sure it is "seated". then tighten and torque the main bearing caps. Install lower half of the "new" seal after the upper half of the seal is "seated" in place. 2. Loosen main bearing caps (as above) and install a seal "shim" in place under the original (old) seal. There is a tool that is available that supports and guides the "shim" into place. Tighten and torque the main bearing cap bolts and then install the lower half of the "new" seal. 3. (least desirable) Loosen the main bearing caps as above. expand or "pack" the "old" upper half of the seal into the slot using a hardwood punch formed to the proper shape. Then add new material at each end of the seal to fill the seal slot. Tighten and torque the main bearing cap bolts and install the "new" lower half of the seal. If the lower seal is in the rear main bearing cap, install it first without the lower seal in place to "seat" the upper half of the seal. Then remove it and install the "new" lower half of the seal in the main bearing cap. Install the main bearing cap with the "new" lower half of the seal in place, tighten and torque the main bearing cap bolts. Some mechanics like to (and some manuals state to) put a small amount of sealant on the ends (only) of the seal and on the mating surfaces of the rear main bearing cap or seal retainer. Be sure that the "drain back" holes or slots in the lower rear seal retainer (or rear main bearing cap) are clean and clear, even to the point of filing or polishing the holes or slots smoothe. If the seal is a two piece metal backed "rubber" lip or double lip seal, post again and advise us. These should have both halves replaced. There ways to replace those also. Do not worry about having a "half" of a "new" rear oil seal left over if you reuse the "old" upper half of the seal. You can always use it on another tractor in the same manner. Good luck, Gordon

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Bill S.

10-12-2002 19:57:49




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 Re: Re: FSM Rear Engine Seal Install Question. in reply to Gordon in IN, 10-12-2002 17:25:43  
Gordon, Thank you very much for the thorough reply. You have given me courage to try the change however I have decided not to risk it. It is the rope type however it has a height to width ratio a bit different than most rope seals I've worked with in the past. The upper carrier bolts to the rear block surface. It's not in the block directly however that would not much matter following the procedures you outlined. I have the "sneaky pete" you mentioned, a sort of chinese finger lock to pull by. My worry to is will the old seal shatter too much as I try to extract it with the special screw puller leaving a nearly unreachable portion in the top 1/3. I had an apple from that barrel on I think a 6 cyl 1950 Chevy engine. The driving a shim under the seal has interesting appeal I must say. I'm even thinking a "filler" piece from a Bosch wiper blade may be a good shim for the space available. If, really IF I try anything it will be tenderly. The lower half on the Major is in the cast oil pan and that I will replace. I had a very good off-list discussion too with Brian about this. I want to express my sincere thanks to both of you and anyone else that tried to help.

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Paul

10-10-2002 04:26:48




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 Re: FSM Rear Engine Seal Install Question. in reply to Bill S., 10-09-2002 18:43:17  
A half assed fix will get you a half assed result. Do the job properly or dont do it at all I say. Replacing half a seal? What's with that !!!!



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Bill S.

10-11-2002 22:18:12




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 Re: Re: FSM Rear Engine Seal Install Question. in reply to Paul, 10-10-2002 04:26:48  

Thanks Paul for your insight and wisdom. However that does not answer my question presented in any way. I
WILL at least replace the lower one half which seats into the oil pan. I would like to have heard from someone
that has attempted to pull in a new upper half from beneath. I still suspect it is possible. Yes, both halves of my
ass would prefer to replace both halves of the seal. I just don't want to expand the job just now into splitting the
loader fitted tractor. With the oil pan down already, the biggest mistake would be to replace neither half. FYI,
The pan is down for other reasons, not the seal.

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Steven B

10-12-2002 15:46:55




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 Re: Re: Re: FSM Rear Engine Seal Install Question. in reply to Bill S., 10-11-2002 22:18:12  
Bill

To replace the upper half of the seal without spliting the tractor is not possible because the only way you can remove the seal without removing the seal retainer is to drop the crank and that also means splitting the tractor.

If the seal was not leaking before you droped the pan only replace the lower half. I have done this many times when re-ringing an engine in tractor. In fact there is a re-build kit that only replaces big ends and pistons/ sleeves thats meant to be installed in tractor. When using this kit you dont split the tractor. If the seal is leaking then you have no choice but to split and relace. A job I have also had to do to one of my Super Majors.

Steven B

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