Modern gas in pre '75 tractor engines

Dave from MN · Mar 4, 2010

Is there any additives a guy should be using? Just wondering for my Case 870 I have, I have been just using regular unleaded in it, and am wondering if I am doing harm to the engine? Should I be adding a lead substitute or using a higher grade gas? Being MN, I belive all gas is blended with 10%(?) ethanol also.

JD2ACWD · Mar 4, 2010

just plain gas is fine ,you do not need lead substitute.

Dean · Mar 4, 2010

Dave:

Your Cast tractor engine is a piece of industrial equipment. As a result, it, no doubt, has hardened valve seats. Lead free gasoline should not hurt it even if you work it as intended.

Ethanol, is another matter, however, and it can cause issues with fuel system components, especially if not used within a few weeks of purchase.

Dean

Dean

cj in wisconsin · Mar 4, 2010

The blended fuel has enough ethanol in it to slowly attack any rubber components etc in your fuel system, also act as a detergent and will loosen any crud in your fuel tank. One other drawback is phase seperation and hydroscopic tendencies , it will absorb moisture to the point of saturation especiially in a vented system. If used quickly this is not as serious a problem as if it sits a lot. Here in wisconsin the premium fuels generally have no ethanol in them and is what I use exclusively in my old machines, also has a much longer shelf life than the regular fuels.

PeterE · Mar 4, 2010

I'm in MN. I run regular gas with STA-BIL in all my old gasoline tractors (not that I think the brand of stabilizer matters). If the tractor is getting parked for longer than overnight I will shut the fuel off and let it run dry.

dhermesc · Mar 4, 2010

This slow "attack" on the rubber components of my fuel system, when should I notice it? My IH 350 has been running it since 1994 and still hasn't shown any signs. My 1966 F600 has been running it since 1984 and seems to be running OK to.

dhermesc · Mar 4, 2010

The local supplier has been sending out 89 octane E10 since the mid 1980s. Our 656 International gas has had thousands of hours racked up on it and the lack of lead hasn't been an issue. As mentioned below most engines of the "industrial type" had hardened exhaust seats long before automotive engines did. If this tractor is from that area it's probably already been running on E10 for years so the alcohol cleaning out your fuel system and clogging the filter shouldn't be an issue.

E10 does not store well for long periods of time so adding Stabile when you know its going to sit for while (a month or longer) wouldn't be a bad idea. I haven't had issues with E10 clogging up my tractors or trucks but engines with smaller carbs and fuel jets can have issue. If you let your chainsaw sit for 9 months with E10 and no stabile you just as well start by cleaning the carb before you even pull the rope.

Ron Anderson · Mar 4, 2010

I have IH C and "400" and older trucks that sit over winter and have never given me any trouble with 10% mix. At the same time I do use staybill or seafoam in the smaller engines to prevent problems.

buickanddeere · Mar 4, 2010

Nobody ever worried about exhaust valve life with all-fuel, LP or diesel engines.
The engine will last longer and run cleaner with un-leaded fuel rather than being ruined with lead deposits.
Run unleaded and don't worry.

Brian Jasper co. Ia · Mar 4, 2010

About all lead additives do is separate you from your money. Non ethanol blended fuel stores better longer. I always put Stabil in my fuel since it may take 3 to 6 months to use it.

sotxbill · Mar 4, 2010

Lead had the effect of acting as a slight lubricate that did not burn well so it "flowed" through the system and provided a fine coating on the valves and valve seats. This fine coating actually worked to slightly extend the life and reduce wear. However the benifits of unleaded fuel now used, include reduced carbon which also helps reduce wear.

Bottom line is the aftermarket additives are usually a total waste of money and a sham.

You might run an ocasional carburator cleaner every 5 years or diesel injector cleaner every 5 years or so. More important is to run a hd grade of motoroil and change it every 500 hours.

New gas is bad about turning to varnish sooner so running the fuel through the system often is very important for gas engines. Then, some country's military have diesel fuel on storage that is over 10 years old that can still be used if treated for alge growth and water accumulation. I have heard of 40 year old diesel fuel in military reserves in russia thats still viable.

Bill(Wis) · Mar 4, 2010

Those really old tractors didn't know what lead was. Gas never had it until higher octane requirements for higher compression automobiles occurred. Cheapest way to increase the octane rating of gasoline is to add tetra-ethyl lead to it. When I was in the military we had scads of aircraft with recips. Military went to 115 octane avgas. It had so much lead in it that when you drained the sumps it left a white residue on your fingers. The spark plugs on some of the engines, especially the old Franklins, would constantly foul with lead deposits. Looked like the electrodes were soldered together.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 4, 2010

usually lp engines had stellite valves and hardened seats, as for the sky is falling -ethanol paranoia, we have been using ethanol blended fuel for years and more of my tractors are work tractors than show tractors and I see no need to change, no more frozen gas lines in the winter.

cadet trooper · Mar 4, 2010

Interesting post because I was in the middle of the big switchover in the early 70s from leaded to unleaded and my last year in the service I bought a new 1970 Nova with the 307 engine and always used AMACO unleaded gas because it always burned clean at the exhaust then I traded it a couple years later for a 72 Sebring Satellite. Got a call one night from someone who bought my Nova and said it was having problems and took it to the dealer and said it needed a valve job because they said the previous owner used unleaded gas. I felt bad about it but the deal was already consumated I"ve always been gun shy about the issue until I found out the 307 was an Olds engine and had a multitude of problems. Back to the thread I have a 1970 MTD rototiller with a Briggs engine so I assumed I needed a lead additive so I was adding it and causing the EX valve to stick and old small engine friend of mine said loose the lead additive and you"ll be fine. You know what I did and it works fine. What I"m not smart enough to figure out is why it used and had oil smoke coming out the muffler when using the additive now without it the oil consumption has been drastically reduced. My two cents. CT

M Nut · Mar 4, 2010

Run er'. Dad used to run 30 gallons a day through the 830 Case on the round baler until we got our first diesel in 2000. Between the gas tractors we have, we still use about 300 gallons a year with no additives at all.

onefarmer · Mar 4, 2010

How long does it take to ruin the rubber components? I have been running alky blended fuel since the gasohol days in the late 70's in all my vehicles including a '78 Pinto.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 5, 2010

trooper, the 307 in that nova was definitely a small block chevy, not an olds engine.olds 307 didn't come out until mid to late 80's. napaguy

MisterT · Mar 5, 2010

(quoted from post at 22:25:42 03/04/10) The local supplier has been sending out 89 octane E10 since the mid 1980s. Our 656 International gas has had thousands of hours racked up on it and the lack of lead hasn't been an issue. As mentioned below most engines of the "industrial type" had hardened exhaust seats long before automotive engines did. If this tractor is from that area it's probably already been running on E10 for years so the alcohol cleaning out your fuel system and clogging the filter shouldn't be an issue.

E10 does not store well for long periods of time so adding Stabile when you know its going to sit for while (a month or longer) wouldn't be a bad idea. I haven't had issues with E10 clogging up my tractors or trucks but engines with smaller carbs and fuel jets can have issue. If you let your chainsaw sit for 9 months with E10 and no stabile you just as well start by cleaning the carb before you even pull the rope.

I always keep several 5 gallon containers of E-10 on hand. Sometimes I forget which can has been there the longest, and as a result the E-10 in that can may be up to 4 or 5 months old before I use it. I've never encountered any problems, and I do not use any stabilizer. I think that so long as the fuel is stored in an airtight container, and out of the sun, it will be good for quite a long time.

cadet trooper · Mar 5, 2010

Well napaguy you know how it goes? At that age it more has to do with the working parts of a young female than a car? :->

Modern gas in pre '75 tractor engines

Dave from MN

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JD2ACWD

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Dean

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cj in wisconsin

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PeterE

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dhermesc

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dhermesc

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Ron Anderson

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buickanddeere

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Brian Jasper co. Ia

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sotxbill

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Bill(Wis)

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Anonymous-0

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cadet trooper

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M Nut

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onefarmer

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Anonymous-0

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MisterT

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cadet trooper

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