ball joints

Just bought 4 new tires and had a $95 dollar alignment done at tires plus yesterday. told them to check the front end, called and said everything was tight. I secpected one was loose so i checked it this morning and both lowers are loose. There not sloppy falling apart loose but not tight. What is the spec for how much play they can have?

Depends on the vehice. You need to check a shop manual.

Sorry its a 1998 chevy k-1500

What Larry said! Get that manual, or at least read the part about ball joint measurement. Ball joints have to be measured in a specific way, and yours may or may not actually be out of tolerance.

Usually any play is considered worn, I"m surprised the guy that did the alignment didnt catch that , usually they wont align it at all.

thats kinda what i was thinking

Don't remember for sure the specs on the bigger chevys, but one time back when I was doing alignments for a living a found a set on an S-10 that had about 1/8-1/4 inch of play in them. Called the customer in the shop to show him. Well, he didn't wanna spend money where not needed so he called the Chevy dealership and come to find out they actually were "within specs", so we went ahead and lined it up and sent it out the door. If it woulda been my own vehicle though, it woulda got new balljoints.

Like said below, find out what the specs for your vehicle are to see if they're ok or not. That or just go ahead and have them changed out for your own peace of mind.

I live next door to a front end alignment mechanic with the best reputation around.He has been doing the work for over 45 years.He is still the only guy i've ever seen that could align a twin I Beam axle and get it right.He says if a ball joint is loose it needs to be replaced.He also says that you are stealing a mans money if you tell him his front end is aligned with a loose ball joint,tie rod end or other worn componets.I dread the day that he retires and i have to carry my vehicles to someone else.

I live next door to a front end alignment mechanic with the best reputation around.He has been doing the work for over 45 years.He is still the only guy i've ever seen that could align a twin I Beam axle and get it right.He says if a ball joint is loose it needs to be replaced.He also says that you are stealing a mans money if you tell him his front end is aligned with a loose ball joint,tie rod end or other worn componets.I dread the day that he retires and i have to carry my vehicles to someone else.

Here in MD they would check those ball joints if a car was being sold by the owner and if they were not within specs it wouldn't pass inspection. The owner could have them replace them or do it themselves or take it to another repair shop to have it done. The car would then need to go back to the shop that did the inspection to have them check the ball joints.
If that's all that was wrong you would get an inspection certificate. All parts of the steering are checked very close as well as the brakes, tires, exhaust and any rusted holes.
The frame is also inspected for any problems.
Hal
PS: That includes all the windows must be working and no cracks as well as the windshield can have no cracks. Even a chipped windshield may not pass depending where the chip is if its in the full vision of the driver. The state of PA required 2 inspections every year when my late father-in-law lived there. I think now its a yearly inspection and its required as long as you have the car registered there. He always had me to go over the car before it was inspected.

There was a place near me that sold a LOT of parts. Some ball joints/steering joints are spring loaded. With normal hand pressure, one would not detect any wear, they're OK. Well, he would have the vehicle up on a lift, get his biggest pry bar, with the customer looking on,
pry on that joint, compressing the spring, making it LOOK like a lot of wear, and sell all new parts! Many people didn't know any better.

Spring loaded ball joints is a new one on me. I've been in the business for 20 years and have never seen one.
"Play" in ball joints or any other component will allow toe change and cause uneven tire wear. Most of the time the inside edge will have a scalloped type wear pattern.
GM is notorious for sloppy specs on trucks. All one has to do is put the vehicle on an alignment rack and watch how far beyond tolerance the measurements go when the play is taken up. Tire wear says it all.

the cat-and-mouse game with ball joint play is what's acceptable for alignment wear vs what's acceptable for state safety inspection.
From an alignment and tire standpoint, any balljoint movement that would create alignment change outside of spec ( usually manifested in camber change) would be a reason to call the part- but safety inspection is notoriously lenient on ball joint movement.
Chevy trucks are notorious for LBJ movement- and in some books don't even have a spec.
Some ball joints are "indicator ball joints" and wear can be determined by the height of the grease zerk in the ball joint assembly. Others have a movement spec and need to be checked with a dial indicator, BUT ONLY AFTER THE VEHICLE IS PROPERLY SUSPENDED. For example, vehicles suspended by coil spring on the lower control arms should be suspended by the frame rail- the LBJ is designed to operate in tension and exhibits excessive up and down otherwise. On a vehicle with the spring on the upper control arm (Ford, AMC, strut equipped cars), you support the vehicle by the control arm when checking- the LBJ is designed to operate in compression and their should be minimal movement.
Good quality ball joints (ex MOOG Problem solvers) will have a spring in them which takes up wear. Crappie ball joints (ie ford oe and cheap chinese) will be rubber filled and as the rubber deteriorates the movement gets out of control.
A lot of "ball joint issues" called on modern cars are really sealed wheel bearing issues....also upper strut mounts.
the art of checking front end parts has gone all to heck with the new alignment equipment that compensates caster without having to lift and rotate wheels- many "modern" alignment techs don't even get tires off the rack to align these days, and don't even check parts.

Its mostly a Ford thang,,, I am not sure of the term to use but its sota like this,,, the socket of the tie rods ends are surrounded by some kind of rubber insulator,,, its hard to confirm ware BUT once the insulator deteriorates it goes down hill fast. My take,,, any loose motion confirms a kill

good alignment men are far and tween apart,,, if one finds one patronize him ,,, the world is full of wham bam thank you mam alignment shops.

B'n old school a hunter lite-o-line alignment machine does not lie,,, A Hunter lite-O-line does not know the difference from the front wheels than the back tho one has to read the rear wheels spec backerds (not taught in trade schools)

Alignment is a talent that once one gets a eye for can pert near B done with a good eye.

If I could chose a line of work to specialize in it would b suspension work,,, a good eye and know'n how to swing a hammer one can do well,,, Plenty of gravy goes in under car work.

Be sure you got grease in it if you are lucky enough to have grease fittings. No grease will make slop.

on that design up and down movement is allowed(1/4in) but no side to side with the jack under the lower control arm, lift with a pry bar under the tire lift(check play) the grab the tire top and bottom pull and push to check in and outplay. The Idler arms were junk the day GM put them on,should not move up and down. The reson you can t find a good aligment man is nobody wants to pay what it is worth to fight dirt and rust in your face all day.

I called them up today and asked if its ok to align a vehicle with worn ball joints,they said absoulty not. I told them they did it yesterday on my truck and said fix the ball jointsand we will align it for free. No sorry we didnt catch it or anything, just I have 30 days o bring it bak other wise they will charge me. last time I deal with a chain store, i;ll stick with the mom and pop small shops.
Ben

I think he is referring to the spring in the joint that loads the ball. Cut a ball joint apart you will find the spring....usually broken or worn flat on a bj with excessive play.