Been looking at this site for a while, never been a farmer, but I was raised on a small farm in the 50"s - 60"s which our uncle farmed for us. How many tractor companies are there, now? I think maybe JD , AGCO, CASE/IH, New Holland? In the case of New Holland, is it a Ford or Versatile? Is AGCO mostly Allis? thanks for our indulgence.
- Thread starter Riverslim
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Traditional Farmer
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- Virginia
AGCO now includes Massey Ferguson,Allis Chalmers,White,Oliver,Cockshutt and a bunch of short line companies.IH-Case is also New Holland which is all owned by Fiat,Then JD,Kubota,Yanmar and many 'offbrand' tractors many of which are built in China
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Deere is still Deere (for now anyway...current Deere Inc. Pres would sell it in a heartbeat)
AGCO features Massey Ferguson along with several implement brands they"ve absorbed. AGCO bought Allis, White/Oliver/Cockshutt,
CNH (Case New Holland) is a conglomeration of Case/IH, New Holland, Stieger, and several other brands under the control of Fiat (Fix It Again Tony!)
Caterpillar has a share of the big AG market. Their tractors are essentially Massey Fergusons produced by AGCO in return for AGCO selling the Perkins engine brand to CAT.
Kubota is a major player in the compact and small tractor field.
Mahindra is a player in compact and small market
Kioti is a player in the compact tractor market.
Then there"s about a dozen "also rans"
Also a few European brands that have "market share" but not so much in the US.
AGCO features Massey Ferguson along with several implement brands they"ve absorbed. AGCO bought Allis, White/Oliver/Cockshutt,
CNH (Case New Holland) is a conglomeration of Case/IH, New Holland, Stieger, and several other brands under the control of Fiat (Fix It Again Tony!)
Caterpillar has a share of the big AG market. Their tractors are essentially Massey Fergusons produced by AGCO in return for AGCO selling the Perkins engine brand to CAT.
Kubota is a major player in the compact and small tractor field.
Mahindra is a player in compact and small market
Kioti is a player in the compact tractor market.
Then there"s about a dozen "also rans"
Also a few European brands that have "market share" but not so much in the US.
Mathias NY
Well-known Member
also add:
Deutz-Fahr - compact and medium size
Montana - compact and medium
Deutz-Fahr - compact and medium size
Montana - compact and medium
The remaining players are Deere, who are still Deere and pretty well always have been Deere..
Case NewHolland.... which is a massive conglomeration of the remnants of Ford, Case, David Brown, International Harvester, Fiat, NewHolland, Steyr, Steiger and no doubt a few more that escape me at the moment.
AGCo... or the Allis Gleaner Company is the remnants of Allis Chalmers, Gleaner combines, Massey Ferguson, Fendt, White, Cockshutt, Oliver, Minneapolis-Moline, Valtra/Valmet/Volvo, and probably a few more. I believe Same is one of them, along with some Deutz heritage.
I'm not sure what their Challenger line is based on because I don't follow them closely... but it came about a few years ago when Catepillar sold them their Challenger tractors... however, Cat remains the marketer for the Challenger line. They simply don't build them anymore.
Perkins engines were wholly swallowed by Cat several years before the Challenger deal took place. Probably about 10 years ago.
Kubota is the other major player in the utility tractor market, but they top out in around the 100 hp range.
There are various other Jap compact builders who market their own paint to some degree here whilst building components for the other big three including Shibura (ISM...= NewHolland), Mitsubishi, Toyosha, Iseki, Yanmar (Deere) and a few more...
Then there's the other eastern european treasures like Belarus, Zetor, Universal... and probably some others.
Buhler Versatile is also still building tractors based on the last of the Ford-Versatile heritage and the NewHolland Genesis tractors that were/are built in Winnipeg. Buhler Versatile is now owned by the Russians.... Rostlemash I think is the name of the outfit; a russian combine manufacturer.
Rod
Case NewHolland.... which is a massive conglomeration of the remnants of Ford, Case, David Brown, International Harvester, Fiat, NewHolland, Steyr, Steiger and no doubt a few more that escape me at the moment.
AGCo... or the Allis Gleaner Company is the remnants of Allis Chalmers, Gleaner combines, Massey Ferguson, Fendt, White, Cockshutt, Oliver, Minneapolis-Moline, Valtra/Valmet/Volvo, and probably a few more. I believe Same is one of them, along with some Deutz heritage.
I'm not sure what their Challenger line is based on because I don't follow them closely... but it came about a few years ago when Catepillar sold them their Challenger tractors... however, Cat remains the marketer for the Challenger line. They simply don't build them anymore.
Perkins engines were wholly swallowed by Cat several years before the Challenger deal took place. Probably about 10 years ago.
Kubota is the other major player in the utility tractor market, but they top out in around the 100 hp range.
There are various other Jap compact builders who market their own paint to some degree here whilst building components for the other big three including Shibura (ISM...= NewHolland), Mitsubishi, Toyosha, Iseki, Yanmar (Deere) and a few more...
Then there's the other eastern european treasures like Belarus, Zetor, Universal... and probably some others.
Buhler Versatile is also still building tractors based on the last of the Ford-Versatile heritage and the NewHolland Genesis tractors that were/are built in Winnipeg. Buhler Versatile is now owned by the Russians.... Rostlemash I think is the name of the outfit; a russian combine manufacturer.
Rod
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Claas choppers and hay equipment and Valtra tractors are in the US now too. It's a global market now not just here. The CAT Lexion combine is a Claas.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
"Wholly swallowed" isn"t quite a correct explaination. Purchased would be a more accurate term. From the late 1950"s until the sale, Perkins was owned outright by Massey Ferguson. When MF was bought from Variety Corp, AGCO, as the new owner of Massey Ferguson, became owner of Perkins. Perkins was then sold (by AGCO) to Caterpillar. As part of the settlement, AGCO took on the production of the Challenger line-up to be marketed through CAT dealers. The entire process took over 12 years, start to finish.
Perkins is one of the largest and most successful builders of small to mid-sized diesel engines in the world. Cat didn"t have a very successful small engine line of their own. The purchase of Perkins (by Cat) along with the increased production (for AGCO) by incorporating the Challenger line with Massey Ferguson production gave AGCO a MUCH stronger bottom line. Massey Ferguson still has limited rights to certain Perkins engine designs and has those designs produced under licensure agreements with several brands. (SISU for one)
Perkins is one of the largest and most successful builders of small to mid-sized diesel engines in the world. Cat didn"t have a very successful small engine line of their own. The purchase of Perkins (by Cat) along with the increased production (for AGCO) by incorporating the Challenger line with Massey Ferguson production gave AGCO a MUCH stronger bottom line. Massey Ferguson still has limited rights to certain Perkins engine designs and has those designs produced under licensure agreements with several brands. (SISU for one)
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
It"s been an on-going process. At one point, there was an AGCO tractor line that was essentially a direct descendant of Allis Chalmers. Gradually, AGCO is consolidating dealers, parts network, and production capabilities. As the changes have taken place, they have adopted the the product name most recognizable around the world, Massey Ferguson, as their flagship brand. With that, the AGCO tractor brand has gradually disappeared.
I saw it broken down once. There were 51 different companies who's rights are owned by Agco. 22 brands that are current,the rest dearly departed. It's hard to say what the origination was of the new products,depends on what product and line you're talking about. The Massey Ferguson line kind of stands alone as far as tractors go. Agco tractors,well,the large ones,White started building transmission and rearends for Allis before White was bought up by Agco,so the new ones are kind of the best of both I suppose. Hay tools are built by Agco Hesston. Challenger,Terragator,that kind of thing are stand alone as well.
Purchased... yeah that's probably a good word.
As far as I know, the two deals were years apart and unrelated. Cat bought Perkins in the late 90's. Seems to me that the Challenger deal was mabey around 02-03, and had a lot more to do with Cat exiting the Ag business.
Undeniably it improved AGCO's position as it did Cat's position because they seemed to feel that they could never really make a big mark in agriculture... but I don't ever recall that the two deals were really connected at the time.
I will concede, I don't follow the AGCO's or Cat's dealings too closely.
Rod
As far as I know, the two deals were years apart and unrelated. Cat bought Perkins in the late 90's. Seems to me that the Challenger deal was mabey around 02-03, and had a lot more to do with Cat exiting the Ag business.
Undeniably it improved AGCO's position as it did Cat's position because they seemed to feel that they could never really make a big mark in agriculture... but I don't ever recall that the two deals were really connected at the time.
I will concede, I don't follow the AGCO's or Cat's dealings too closely.
Rod
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The closing of each seperate phase of the deal was years apart, but were all part of one bigger "deal". AGCO/MF was furnishing CAT/Challenger with tractors to sell quite aa while before the "deal" was sealed. The entire venture isn"t quite complete yet. There"s even some speculation that CAT may someday own AGCO, or at the very least become more or less "corporate partners".
I"ve heard (from a semi-reliable source) Fiat may look to exchange CNH for an infusion of cash at some point.
Same source has mentioned Deere may entertain offers.
With todays global economy, I"d suspect there"ll be quite a few more changes before things settle.
At any rate, 25 years ago, would anyone have bet that International Harvester would meet their demise? Who knows what the next 25 years, or even the next ONE year have in store?
I"ve heard (from a semi-reliable source) Fiat may look to exchange CNH for an infusion of cash at some point.
Same source has mentioned Deere may entertain offers.
With todays global economy, I"d suspect there"ll be quite a few more changes before things settle.
At any rate, 25 years ago, would anyone have bet that International Harvester would meet their demise? Who knows what the next 25 years, or even the next ONE year have in store?
Yes, I'd not be surprised if there was a merger between Cat and Agco, or more likely a Cat purchase given the relative size of the two.
I don't think Fiat has any goals other than making money, so nothing would surprise me there. Any deal is possible...
I doubt that too many saw, or perhaps wanted to see what happend IH 25 years ago. Now it's just a spec in the makup of CNH. Likewise with Ford, but that deal was forseen by many ahead of time.
Personally, I think you may see Cat swallow the last of IH/Navistar before too long. As I understand things, Cat is out of the highway engine market in a year or so because they don't want to be responsible for bringing the new emissions crap online... but they are partnering with IH to build their own 'Cat' branded vocatonal trucks.
Often, when the Cat plays with the mouse, the mouse gets swallowed... That's just my opinion, but I'm curious to see how it'll all play out.
As you say, I think we ain't seen nuttin yet...
The biggest deals are yet to come.
Rod
Rod
I don't think Fiat has any goals other than making money, so nothing would surprise me there. Any deal is possible...
I doubt that too many saw, or perhaps wanted to see what happend IH 25 years ago. Now it's just a spec in the makup of CNH. Likewise with Ford, but that deal was forseen by many ahead of time.
Personally, I think you may see Cat swallow the last of IH/Navistar before too long. As I understand things, Cat is out of the highway engine market in a year or so because they don't want to be responsible for bringing the new emissions crap online... but they are partnering with IH to build their own 'Cat' branded vocatonal trucks.
Often, when the Cat plays with the mouse, the mouse gets swallowed... That's just my opinion, but I'm curious to see how it'll all play out.
As you say, I think we ain't seen nuttin yet...
The biggest deals are yet to come.
Rod
Rod
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
And there's always that chance of a "foriegn entity" with large sums of cash buying their way into the game. Look at BudWeiser beer. Who would have ever thought "the King of Beers" would see a buy out? Foriegn money is attracted to the possibilities (probability ???) that the US economy will rebound and once again prosper. Buying a major player while the price is right is a good way to turn a big chunk of money into an astronomical sum.
We see a brand (or brands) that have been instrumental in our heritage. CEO's and stockholders see a quick buck.
We see a brand (or brands) that have been instrumental in our heritage. CEO's and stockholders see a quick buck.
no Allis chalmers is still a stand alone company , but they no longer build tractors. there in the mining equimnet bussiness just like when they started , they did years ago sell of the rights to the allis name. the only one to have the rights to the allis chalmers name to use is briggs and straton on there new rider mowers, allis chalmers is based out of texas.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I am thinking there is more tractor companies around the world than car manufacturers. There are so many brands that even someone who is a tractor nut like myself doesn't even know them all.
Gene Dotson
Well-known Member
Go to this Tractordata link. It shows all the mergers and buyouts for over 100 years... Gene
Untitled URL Link
Untitled URL Link
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Deutz-Fahr - I don't think they make their own compacts, I think they are rebadged sister brands (Same's I think). What they make are large to larger tractors. 80 ish to 300 hp tractors and big combines.
Same-Deutz-Lamborgini plus a few other brands are all married together. Deutz also supplies engines to some other tractors. Also, the whole group supplies orchard tractors to several other companies.
Same-Deutz-Lamborgini plus a few other brands are all married together. Deutz also supplies engines to some other tractors. Also, the whole group supplies orchard tractors to several other companies.
'We see a brand (or brands) that have been instrumental in our heritage. CEO's and stockholders see a quick buck'
True enough...
The irony that I see in that is that I really have no brand loyalty for new gear anymore. As you're well aware, Ford was my preference... but that's gone more than 15 years now. It's taken them a lot of time but they've more or less eliminated the last Ford designs from the current models in favor of Fiat components. I didn't want Fiat stuff 15 years ago. I still don't... though it may be plenty good. The irony being that the 'brand' that I was somewhat loyal to is now gone. With it the potential of a sale. The likely replacement a Deere, mostly because their dealer is closer and gives excellent service.
I can't complain about my NH dealer either. They give excellent service too but they're a lot further away.
If these companines believe that the only thing people are loyal to is paint and a name, I think they've got some news coming to them... That's how I feel about it anyhow. I think it will eventually hit them on the bottom line. Mabey sooner rather than later.
I believe that the next year to 18 months will bring about a new round of very hard times in the farm equipment business, and it will quickly become a game of who has the deepest pockets.
I've got a feeling that AGCO won't fair too well.
Deere has deep roots in the industrial sector that may help to carry them. Fiat has their fingers in a lot of different pies... so they may well be better financed to carry through. Agco may well find themselves falling into Cat's hands since Cat does have pretty deep pockets. Pure speculation... but curious to see how it shakes out.
Mabey nothing will happen.
Rod
True enough...
The irony that I see in that is that I really have no brand loyalty for new gear anymore. As you're well aware, Ford was my preference... but that's gone more than 15 years now. It's taken them a lot of time but they've more or less eliminated the last Ford designs from the current models in favor of Fiat components. I didn't want Fiat stuff 15 years ago. I still don't... though it may be plenty good. The irony being that the 'brand' that I was somewhat loyal to is now gone. With it the potential of a sale. The likely replacement a Deere, mostly because their dealer is closer and gives excellent service.
I can't complain about my NH dealer either. They give excellent service too but they're a lot further away.
If these companines believe that the only thing people are loyal to is paint and a name, I think they've got some news coming to them... That's how I feel about it anyhow. I think it will eventually hit them on the bottom line. Mabey sooner rather than later.
I believe that the next year to 18 months will bring about a new round of very hard times in the farm equipment business, and it will quickly become a game of who has the deepest pockets.
I've got a feeling that AGCO won't fair too well.
Deere has deep roots in the industrial sector that may help to carry them. Fiat has their fingers in a lot of different pies... so they may well be better financed to carry through. Agco may well find themselves falling into Cat's hands since Cat does have pretty deep pockets. Pure speculation... but curious to see how it shakes out.
Mabey nothing will happen.
Rod
Welding man
Well-known Member
- Location
- West Virginia
I agree with Rod, maybe not in the big farming country ,but where I live Ford tractors were always #1..We had a very small dealer in our area that sold 101 8N's in 1950 and stayed in business until the mid 80's until Ford forced him out because he wasn't selling enough. Ford had some of the best small tractors out there and the toughest Class 8 trucks with their Louisville series, But the CEO's thought they could make more money selling Land Rovers and Jaguars than tractors and trucks.Now they are begging Congress for money. I'll bet old Henry is rolling over in his grave.
MF POOR,you hold the MF line in too high an esteem in the Agco lineup.The MFs, Agco and Challengers all come off the same Assy.line in France(Sheet medal and engines are the only diff.).I believe you are in Can.so the sales maybe diff.,but in US Agco(brand) tractors probably out sell MFs 7400-8400 tractors 8 maybe 10 to 1.
cadet trooper
Well-known Member
I'm impressed even I'm up to date now I might add I just heard McCormick just shut down operations and someone mentioned Toyosha which has been shutdown since 1985 thanks to Deutz's aquisition of Allis-Chalmers but otherwise pretty accurate info. Fellows I know we've all grown up with our favorite color but so didn't our parents and grand parents look at Massey-Harris, Oliver Hart-Parr Grahm-Bradley etc. It is the evolution of the business but I've always said even to the Deere guys it's all about the money and they don't care how dedicated you are to them it's the bottom line just like you and your bottom line. The strength of the dollar against the world market makes us sitting ducks.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Massey Ferguson branded tractors have been the world wide sales leader since 1962. In the early 90's it was over 25% more than the the number 2 selling, which I believe was Ford. Perkins used to be the largest manufacturer of diesel engines, at least in the 60's and probably into the 70's. I wouldn't doubt that they are still the largest in lower H.P. diesels. They have helped other engine builders with R & D. Agco is a global company and can name their tractors what ever they want. They kept the MF name as their flagship line because of world wide recognition. JD is the best selling in N. America only. The Challenger wheeled tractors are rebadged MF tractors. A few years ago there was a dealer up here that sold MF and Allis tractors from Agco. The only difference was the engine on the bigger ones. Dave
I think your 'statistics' are still stuck in 1962.
The current stats today, in terms of gross revenue are as follows:
1. Deere and Company: $24.082 billion USD (2007)
2. Case NewHolland: € 11,843 million (2007) $15.963 billion USD
3. AGCO: US$6.8 billion (2007)
I think it's a push to suggest that Massey is the sales leader throughout the world when you look at numbers like that.
Popular no doubt, a leader in some markets perhaps... but not a world sales leader. Deere probably sold 6.8 billion in tractors alone, never mind everything else they sold.
Those numbers above are taken from wikipedia, correct or not.
Rod
The current stats today, in terms of gross revenue are as follows:
1. Deere and Company: $24.082 billion USD (2007)
2. Case NewHolland: € 11,843 million (2007) $15.963 billion USD
3. AGCO: US$6.8 billion (2007)
I think it's a push to suggest that Massey is the sales leader throughout the world when you look at numbers like that.
Popular no doubt, a leader in some markets perhaps... but not a world sales leader. Deere probably sold 6.8 billion in tractors alone, never mind everything else they sold.
Those numbers above are taken from wikipedia, correct or not.
Rod
E.B. Haymakin'
Member
Amen to that sermon!
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