BIG THREE BAILOUT !!!!

I would love to here some of the members views and comments on the big three bailout talks !!![/b]

how bout I just take my private jet to your place and talk in person.those guys are idiots

I agree 100% blooming idiots !!

Charlie Rose had barney Frank and Senator Shelby on last night debating that issue,When was the last time GMAC financing gave you a break when you couldn't make your payment? The top CEO idiots flew to DC in their Corporate Jets 20 grand for that one

Tax exemptions only for dedicated design and production of wind generator systems using down production lines and displaced workers. (similar to WPA but with alternate energy outcomes) Tax exemption rewards for electric only short range commute cars-40 mph max. Not freeway legal. 40 mile range, no frills. ECO ECO box.
If we can build a device as complex as a modern car for 15000 we can make a generator on a pole for less! JimN

Then they wonder why everything is going (**&*((*&*^%&)That ceo from Ford flys back to Seattle where he lives every weekend in that Corporate Jet and is paid 28 million a year..could pay 300 workers pay and benefits with that

I saw a clip where one of the high and mighty inquisitors asked the three ceos if they would give up their corporate jets. Iwould have loved it if all 3 would have told the senator what Dick Cheney told Patrick "Leaky" Leahy several years back.

What i think is really sad is they are even considering it!!!!

Here is the skinny on what needs to be done.

1. A big wealthy guy like (Warren Buffett) Needs to buy all the GM stock and say My way or the highway to all GM execs, salaried, UAW.

2. Then Buffett must demand all bonuses cut to zero, company jets--cancelled, layoff a &hitload of deadweight, pay cuts of 20% for all until the company is in the black again.

3. IF---the car company execs were real serious about getting taxpayer money for a bailout then they would cut pay and bennies for all employed.

The Federal gov. must help them, but only if the companies are willing to get lean.

Some thoughts:
Funny how a sound bite strategically used by a pandering politician in a hearing becomes the only issue. People complain about executive pay (GM CEO Rick Wagoner is one of the least payed CEO's in major industries...Goldman Sachs $50mil., major league pitchers $20mil) but then when he flys on a corp jet to most likely hold a mtg. with 5-10 people on the plane and save 1 or 2days time ...people complain. At his pay rate, if I was a stockholder, I don't want him waiting for his luggage at he NW terminal.

Since Sen. Shelby(R)from Alabama was mentioned...do you suppose he is opposed because he is in the pocket of BMW, Hyundai, Honda and Mercedes who have been given Billions in Fed, State, county and local $$$$ in concessions to build their plants in Alabams...including specially built schools for the children of executives who move here from other countries.

We can continue to regurgitate the talking points that the mainstream media give us or we can do a little digging for ourselves.

Lastly, we as a country need to decide whether we will be a nation that produces things or simply have everyone work at WalMart, McDonalds and Wall St. firms.

As I see it we only need about 50% of the auto manufactuing capacity, and less than 2% of these guys lifestyle habits. If some of them go bankrupt, should cure the problem. I'm not too concerned, someone will turn out parts for models currently on the road.

I hardly agree with anything Micheal Moore says, but in an interview he made what I thought is pretty good point. He said the government thought it was an urgent high priority to bail out the banks (the high rollers) with $700 billion. To bail out the Big 3 that employs mainly regular working people for a lot less, well, that's another matter.

(quoted from post at 18:47:22 11/20/08) Some thoughts:
Funny how a sound bite strategically used by a pandering politician in a hearing becomes the only issue. People complain about executive pay (GM CEO Rick Wagoner is one of the least payed CEO's in major industries...Goldman Sachs $50mil., major league pitchers $20mil) but then when he flys on a corp jet to most likely hold a mtg. with 5-10 people on the plane and save 1 or 2days time ...people complain. At his pay rate, if I was a stockholder, I don't want him waiting for his luggage at he NW terminal.

Since Sen. Shelby(R)from Alabama was mentioned...do you suppose he is opposed because he is in the pocket of BMW, Hyundai, Honda and Mercedes who have been given Billions in Fed, State, county and local $$$$ in concessions to build their plants in Alabams...including specially built schools for the children of executives who move here from other countries.

We can continue to regurgitate the talking points that the mainstream media give us or we can do a little digging for ourselves.

Lastly, we as a country need to decide whether we will be a nation that produces things or simply have everyone work at WalMart, McDonalds and Wall St. firms.

Click to expand...

I think the problem is that Wagner looks arragant. He passed up a great opportunity to showcase the company products on a world stage. Image is important, but GM seems to problems understanding this. And if Wagner is that good a manager, the place shouldn't fall apart if he takes a couple days off. Look at the results of his visit. He failed to get what he went there for. He should be the company's top saleperson, not a liability.

It will be bad either way. All 3 will become zombie companies if they get it resulting in a waste of our tax dollars and a temporary fix at best until they mismanage what the fed gives them and ask for more. Giving Detroit a ton of money isn"t going to make people buy new cars, we are in a new world here, they don"t get it, all the rules have changed.

If they dont get the bailout, half a million jobs in that direct industry alone will fall, not to mention the ancilliary manufacturers and other suppliers farther down the line, right down to light bulb manufacturers and plastic injection companies that make that 99 cent clip on plastic cup holder.

I was watching Russia Today the other day and no one is buyng any cars there either, imagine that. They showed the poor truckers living in their trucks, cooking over a portable gas stove in the cold and snow because dealerships are turning them away, and the truckers dont get paid until the product is off their racks, a big freaking mess and they only have 1 ONE, major automobile manufacturer, 100s of truckers suffering.

I think our big three need to figure it out for themselves and in a real big fast hurry. They need to get together, quit beating thier chest and consolidate and clean up their own mess, just like the banks should have done. Who needs 100 different models of cars and trucks anyways. Problem now is, their too over structured and can"t move fast enough to adapt to a changing environent. I know when my businesses start taking hits, to back up, regroup, cut stuff quick and re examine the bottom lines on a daily basis, who"s gonna bail me out?. Thats why nothing that the fed can do will work, they were too late to begin with and now very seriously behind the crumbling curve. I dont see that bank bailout making any difference (knew it wouldn"t)and my last buck says it never will, any takers?

The day is here where swift, nimble companies will survive and if properly positioned, make a killing. Cash is now king and we all know tightly were holding on to that.

I think it"s about time this happened, things have been too "free and easy" for way too long, too bad most people don"t look at where their heading when their running off the cliff, when the masses are all running one way, you find me quietly and quickly sneaking through the bushes in the opposite direction. The days of do something, even if it"s wrong are long gone.

Anyone thinking about what they should be stocking up on? Car makers failing conjures up questions like; what about parts? Funny how people are giving away thier horses right now, kinda makes you think, doesn"t it?. History ALWAYS repeats it'self.

I kinda think this whole mess is right on time and long overdue. All the big boys, in every industry who took greedy advantage need to start back up from the first rung the way I see it, they need to go. I feel sorry for people who got caught up in it and the many more that will be sucked down in the days ahead. Quite simply put, resourcefulness and cash is all that matters now. Will come a time when all the cash in the would wont make a bit of difference either.

Tell the big three the bail out will be approved if they take a pay cut down to 1 mil or less and no bonus for five years. Or they can also quit now and no bonus, severance, or any other monies paid out. And the rest of the board of directors takes a 75% pay cut until all loads are paid back and the companies are in the black for five years.

Lee Iacocca brought back Chrysler one time with the K Cars. Simple, cheap cars that didn't cost a fortune and people could afford. Bring back that idea. Make a few basic models of cars and pickups until the companies get back on their feet.

Speaking of Warren Buffet, a few months ago I talked with my financial advisor about getting out of the market. One of his talking points against it was that Warren Buffet had just bought a bunch of stock (GE, I think). He said, if the market's going to go south, would Buffet be getting in? I heard Glenn Beck say today that Buffet got PREFERRED stock, which he described as being esentially guaranteed. Advisor failed mention that. Beck said during the great depression Mellon did the same and they used him as the "Judas Goat" the same way. Another example of the rich vs. the poor.

My thinking is the unions have their hands tied but if they can declare bankruptcy the union has no power over what the big 3 can do. Its a thought, doncha think thay would like to shed their self's of the union's,,, has any one ever tried to deal with a business tied up in bankruptcy,,, you can't ,,, your are fudged ,,, you git what they give ya,,, most of the time its nuttin. I think all this economy chit has been manipulated so what we should B worried about is whats the magic number for the stock market,,, I'm think'n 7000,,, its either gonna fall flat on its face are at that number folks with money are gonna buy all theyan spare. Hpe for that if that the magic number for the rich to git off their money things will improve

I agree with the pay cuts etc. And you all know I'm not afraid or smart enough to shut up. So here goes my train of thought.

We all know that the good jobs in factories where the workers get high dollars instead of min wage are few. But we all know a few, and they will tell you how much they pay in taxes. Now for a red neck like me, that tax they pay is more than my take home. So here is how I come to ask this question?

With all those workers out of jobs, they pay no taxes into our government fund. So each week they are working, where does the scale balance with the government bail out?

I have two sons who work in two different companies that make parts for the big three. Oldest son, the factory is shutting down for two weeks. The other son is probably getting the axe because of seniority, and lay offs. Again, they will not be paying into the tax fund.

Our biggest employer in my small home town is shutting down for a unknown time. They also make alot of auto parts. Our government needs these taxes, or they will raise the taxes on the rest of us.

Our local paper last year at this time was four pages of help wanted, this week ---5, ...That is five help wanted, not five pages.

Sooooo, I say bail them out ? ...well I guess I just don't know???? But by darn if we do, there are so many conditions. Different CEO's are a must!!! AND if we bail them out....NOT A FLIPPIN THIN DIME goes to a CEO as the door smackes him in the A$$.

Mater of fact their last five years pays, bonuses, and golden parachutes are TAKEN BACK.

And only now my friends we are then thinking about helping the company out.

I agree that auto manufacturing is a very important part of our economy and without American auto being in existance, the prices of the imports are sure to skyrocket further in price.

That being said, I personally feel the big 3 is mostly building cars for the rich. What do I mean by that?, I mean most of the cars the big 3 make don't retain their value, they can't keep up in fuel efficiency, and they don't have the long lasting reputation that Toyota and Honda have.

Instead of building sensible commuter cars, They've spent their time building sports cars, large sedans, and large SUV/trucks. GM is going broke, but they've got a 400hp Camaro (422hp if standard shift), a 400hp half ton pickup, a 640hp Corvette, and a new Hummer truck on the market for 2009. Is this stuff going to sell in a bad economy? Not in high enough volume.

The big 3 pretty much gave up the commuter car market years ago, choosing to build the big stuff, which worked fine up until the market shifted in the bad economy and record high gas prices hit. The goverment is afraid to give them the loan mostly because they are afraid 6 months from now, those CEOs will be flying their corperate jets back with their hands out again because their business model just doesn't work.

Just from my recollection, I believe that following the oil crunch in the early seventies that laws were made to require the average m.p.g. of the big three’s vehicles to improve each year. They thought it more profitable not to comply and lobbied to have these laws relaxed. The foreign auto makers built fuel efficient cars that people liked and took the business away from the big three who built inefficient models that eventually cost too much to own and operate. This was a near perfect storm. Jimmy Carter, with a chemical engineering degree from Annapolis, understood the problem but did not win enough hearts and minds. The domestic manufactures get no sympathy from me.

Alan Golden, if you are or were from Palmyra, please email me.

Alan Golden, if you are or were from Palmyra, please email me.

As usual, Moore's pointless.

How much do you think the tellers and all the back office folks working at the banks are making?

The car companies have just as fat cats as the banks, and the banks have just as many working folks.

Preferred stock gets preference on dividends (they get paid first, and often more or less promised they will always get a dividend).

In exchange, they normally don't have voting rights. It fits in somewhere between a bond and common stock.

Common Stock itself can have classes. The New York times has "A" and "B" stock -- I forget the exact details, but one class of stock basically controls 90% of the votes with only 10% of the equity and is owned by the Sulzberger family (the original owners). They say that's so they can make sure it remains a good source of news (*snicker*). The other stockholders with 90% of the equity can only vote only have 10% of the votes. Means the non-family stockholders can't do diddly about the Board of Directors, etc unless a substantial number of family members back them.

I have lived in the Detroit area all my life. I've seen countless mistakes, most notably staring with Ford's Jack Nasser. Instead of investing in future programs, he bought junk yards and muffler shops, squandering billions. I could go on about how the auto industry became distracted from the primary goal of building a high quality vehicle which the public wanted and could afford.

Now the industry is in the so called perfect storm, with no credit available, a looming recession, and high gas prices thanks to our very profitable friends at big oil. The Big Three needs to borrow some of the money they and their workers paid out in taxes to Washington so they can remain as the last large manufacturing industry. Regardless of how we got to this point, they need to stay in business or the $25B will be nothing compared to the billions lost in jobs and revenue. Yes, some fat cats will probably get money they don't deserve, but think of the families across America who make or transport parts, own small businesses, or in some way are connected to the industry. When they lose their jobs they will no longer be paying taxes, but rather collecting assistance.

Well they are probably going to get bailed out.We need them in case of a war for one thing.If they went bankrupt and closed it would put the hurt on the United States bad because of the jobs lost in the whole pyramid of related industry.It almost seems like its some plan to bust the union or something.Like crooked bankers are worth 700 billion but car companies arent worth anything?Trouble is car companies are acting like dinosaurs,probably scamming to get rid of the union.Just my opinion.With all the other crooked stuff since about 1980 to get rid of unions,this sure seems to be related.

Im not saying its the worst but tell me all you guys out there that scream for capitalism whats up with your system that has to be propped up by going to the public trough when your large companies are going bankrupt?I thought the free market system was the cats meow?Shipping all your jobs to Mexico and China -SHAME ON YOU.Your system is on the downhill slide, Rome is burning.

Ya know............
If the big 3 banded had together, like their doing now, and began to make fuel efficient or fuel cell cars and trucks a lot earlier and said to John Q public "This is what what we have to do for the better of the future" They could have eliminated their over lapping models, cut back on the overpaid top end managers, and not been in the problem they are in now.
But no. Greed can be the ruination of capitalism

Why does big brother and the tax payer need to bail them out because they can't manage their business??? Who got them in this mess us? You? NO ! BIG OIL companies, towel heads and fat cat executives GREED for more money put everyone in a economic mess so let them bail everyone out. Will that happen? NO. Not until Joe public is sick of it rounding the fat cats up to take care of them in public! Some heads need to roll like in the old days to make some examples of the real crooks!

You forgot (?) about the plants that are and have been in Canada for years. All good paying jobs too. I mean Ford and Gm plants.

You lost me. These people that would lose their jobs if/when these companies go down, they can't go out and find other work?