- Thread starter muleman51
- Start date
muleman51, obviously you have the problem figured out. I too wonder do coils have a reputation for going bad or is it just an easy part to replace to eliminate the coil from a troubleshooting situation. I heard statements that coils get replaced when they are not even bad. Can a coil be tested, I'm sure thats been talked about here but I don't recall. I have no answer for your question just more questions and by the way, can I throw these coils I've been saving away? because I bought a new one not knowing what the real problem was. lol gobble
Jaden
Member
- Location
- Eastern Nebraska
One thing that can cause coil failure is excessive heat. Can you remount it so it gets more airflow, or add a heat shield, perhaps?
xcess heat primarily comes from too much current when it is the wrong coil for the application, perhaps as when a 1.6 Ohms coil for a 6v application is used on a 12v system without an appropriate current reducing ballast resistor, instead of a 3 Ohm coil for a 12v system..
teddy52food
Well-known Member
If you want to throw them away, I would take them. I can test them to see if they are good or not. My tester will heat them too & see if they are good when hot.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
I've always been amazed by how many people jump to replace the coil anytime there's skipping or a no start issue.
On 60 years of working on cars, trucks and tractors I've only had 2 of the coil cans to fail. One missed when hot and one blew up due to overvoltage. Factory coils last pert near forever.
On 60 years of working on cars, trucks and tractors I've only had 2 of the coil cans to fail. One missed when hot and one blew up due to overvoltage. Factory coils last pert near forever.
What coil are you using? As mentioned, if 12V and no ballast resistor, it should have 3 OHM resistance across the primary. I've found the best 12V, 3 OHM coils are the NAPA IC14. The fancy-pants ones like the Pertronix coils sometimes don't seem to last, but I've never had to replace an IC14 (and I've used lots). Just make sure you get the IC14 (or ECH-IC14), and not the IC14-SB. The SB is the cheaper Chinese one, and they don't last. The regular IC14 (or ECH) is the Echlin one - much better quality.
Keep in mind that problems down-stream of the dizzy can damage a coil: Bad plugs or plugs with improper gap can cause the voltage required to jump the gap to skyrocket, which can eventually damage the insulation in the coil's secondary. Even more common is bad plug wires with too high resistance (either from damage/wear, or from being the wrong type), which causes the same problem. An alternator/generator that's putting out significantly more than 14.4V can burn up the primary windings (a common problem on the old N's with the front mount dizzy's, where people have put in those wacky 8V batteries and cranked up the generator output to suit).
If you're buying good quality 12V coils that don't require a ballast resistor (assuming there's no resistor on the 2510), then I would suspect frequently blown coils are a manifestation of another problem. Start with plug/coil wires as that's the most common cause. I'm assuming you're still running points/condenser, in which case you should have copper-core wires, not the carbon/suppression wires. There's been lots of debate on that subject and tractors will run with both types, but I ascribe quite strongly to the school of thought that carbon/suppression wires will demand too much coil voltage from a conventional system and end up burning up the secondary windings. If the high tension leads are ok, check charging voltage, plug quality/gap, and look for other electrical gremlins. And, of course, the condenser too, but I'm assuming you've already checked this. Lots of lousy condensers can start to cause issues when they're hot.
Whatever the case, 1-2 years sounds like far too short of a lifespan for a good coil.
Keep in mind that problems down-stream of the dizzy can damage a coil: Bad plugs or plugs with improper gap can cause the voltage required to jump the gap to skyrocket, which can eventually damage the insulation in the coil's secondary. Even more common is bad plug wires with too high resistance (either from damage/wear, or from being the wrong type), which causes the same problem. An alternator/generator that's putting out significantly more than 14.4V can burn up the primary windings (a common problem on the old N's with the front mount dizzy's, where people have put in those wacky 8V batteries and cranked up the generator output to suit).
If you're buying good quality 12V coils that don't require a ballast resistor (assuming there's no resistor on the 2510), then I would suspect frequently blown coils are a manifestation of another problem. Start with plug/coil wires as that's the most common cause. I'm assuming you're still running points/condenser, in which case you should have copper-core wires, not the carbon/suppression wires. There's been lots of debate on that subject and tractors will run with both types, but I ascribe quite strongly to the school of thought that carbon/suppression wires will demand too much coil voltage from a conventional system and end up burning up the secondary windings. If the high tension leads are ok, check charging voltage, plug quality/gap, and look for other electrical gremlins. And, of course, the condenser too, but I'm assuming you've already checked this. Lots of lousy condensers can start to cause issues when they're hot.
Whatever the case, 1-2 years sounds like far too short of a lifespan for a good coil.
Good morning Muelman, in over 50 years as a farmer and used tractor dealer having to repair hundreds of old tractor ignition problems, Ive seen more condensor or points problems versus coils in what you describe. Thats NOT to say coils cant go bad they do indeed and among the causes are:
Overheating.....Sometimes where they are physically located to close to the exhaust manifold,,,,,,,Not mounted with a metal bracket that can help transfer heat
Wrong coil causing overheating. On a 12 volt tractor you can use EITHER a full true 12 volt rated coil, they have a LV primary resistance around 3 or so ohms orrrrrrr a 6 volt coil which has around 1.5 ohms PLUS an external series voltage dropping (12 to 6) ballast resistor....If you use a 6 volt coil at 12 volts (without ballast) it overheats !!!!!!!! NOTE a coil labeled 12 Volts requires ballast is more like a 6 volt coil and would overheat unless a ballast is used JUST LIKE IT SAYS
HIGH VOLTAGE if the charging system keeps the battery at 14+ volts for longggggg periods that can raise coil temperature.
Ive seen condensors fail when they warm up so its NOT a coil problem
Try a coil from NAPA or Brillman versus a cheaper big box store see if that helps, insure the condensor isnt the cause of failure when warm??
John T
Overheating.....Sometimes where they are physically located to close to the exhaust manifold,,,,,,,Not mounted with a metal bracket that can help transfer heat
Wrong coil causing overheating. On a 12 volt tractor you can use EITHER a full true 12 volt rated coil, they have a LV primary resistance around 3 or so ohms orrrrrrr a 6 volt coil which has around 1.5 ohms PLUS an external series voltage dropping (12 to 6) ballast resistor....If you use a 6 volt coil at 12 volts (without ballast) it overheats !!!!!!!! NOTE a coil labeled 12 Volts requires ballast is more like a 6 volt coil and would overheat unless a ballast is used JUST LIKE IT SAYS
HIGH VOLTAGE if the charging system keeps the battery at 14+ volts for longggggg periods that can raise coil temperature.
Ive seen condensors fail when they warm up so its NOT a coil problem
Try a coil from NAPA or Brillman versus a cheaper big box store see if that helps, insure the condensor isnt the cause of failure when warm??
John T
I've also been working on engines for a l o n g time as I'm 80 and started early!
The only verified coil failures I've encountered involved oil filled and leaking cases, ignition left on overnight with points closed and just open windings. Other failures are possible, I've just not seen them first hand. Except for Onans that failed hot.
The only verified coil failures I've encountered involved oil filled and leaking cases, ignition left on overnight with points closed and just open windings. Other failures are possible, I've just not seen them first hand. Except for Onans that failed hot.
teddy52food
Well-known Member
Mid Mn. near Freeport. Where are you?
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
t's pretty easy to test a coil with an ohmmeter. You'll have no trouble finding youtube videos on the subject.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
A Megger test is also vital .
Fixingfarmer
Member
Well Im afraid Ive got a long one but here it goes it might help. 2 basic things to check. And one specific 2510 off the wall thing
1. Classic cause of not starting when hot was plugs gapped too tight single cylinder small engines notoriously do this but the same laws apply
2. A plug gapped too far can cause premature coil failure...so I usually if the coil has failed on something(often an external thing caused the failure mouse ate one of the solid attached wires in the last week on a lawn mower) plugs get done at the same time. At the very least worth checking.
Ok so the 2510...I owned one and tried everything, points condenser, coil, timing a couple times wires plugs. Still had trouble missing and I could tell at my plug tester no light so no juice at plugs when it would die. When it wont fire grab the tester if you dont have they are not expensive even harbor freight has. What mine ended up being was the distributor shaft was loose enough it would run very erratically. Prestolite 4101 s I believe was the number I looked for one for awhile but then tried an ignitor kit. Which worked! The magnet fit over the shaft tight and the wiggle didnt bother it. Neighbor still runs it. Havent run into a distributor for him yet Ive been on the lookout for 2 years just figuring eventually he will need it but so far so good
1. Classic cause of not starting when hot was plugs gapped too tight single cylinder small engines notoriously do this but the same laws apply
2. A plug gapped too far can cause premature coil failure...so I usually if the coil has failed on something(often an external thing caused the failure mouse ate one of the solid attached wires in the last week on a lawn mower) plugs get done at the same time. At the very least worth checking.
Ok so the 2510...I owned one and tried everything, points condenser, coil, timing a couple times wires plugs. Still had trouble missing and I could tell at my plug tester no light so no juice at plugs when it would die. When it wont fire grab the tester if you dont have they are not expensive even harbor freight has. What mine ended up being was the distributor shaft was loose enough it would run very erratically. Prestolite 4101 s I believe was the number I looked for one for awhile but then tried an ignitor kit. Which worked! The magnet fit over the shaft tight and the wiggle didnt bother it. Neighbor still runs it. Havent run into a distributor for him yet Ive been on the lookout for 2 years just figuring eventually he will need it but so far so good
i keep a new coil handy but i put it on n see no change i put it back in box find the problem. and that coil has been installed and removed many times cause it wasnt coil at fault. was thinking maybe somebody else can answer it as im not much on 2510's but is it like john deere did the 50 to 30 series 2 cylenders? when you hit starter button it sent 12 v directly to the coil and as you let off starter the ignition switch sent 6 volts to the coil? if so might be weak resister. our 630 tossed a fit like that .turned out the resister in ignition switch went bad
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