buickanddeere
Well-known Member
When does diesel break even and start paying for it s self ?
- Thread starter buickanddeere
- Start date
steve in ok
Member
- Location
- central Oklahoma
IMHO if you use it for what it is intended the payoff is the work you can get done with it. A lot of the ones I see around just get driven as every day drivers and they will not pay off.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Apparently when you sell the truck. The increased resale value from it being a diesel is where you get your money back.
That's what I've been told. I think it's BS.
Emissions have killed most of the fuel economy advantage a diesel had, and driven up the cost. The only real advantage is power.
You pay $20,000 (for the sake of argument) extra for the diesel option (because you can't just get a basic truck with a diesel, it has to have the special transmission and a whole bunch of fancy trim level stuff too) when the truck is new. The truck is NOT worth $20,000 more than a gasser in the same condition when you go to sell it.
It just doesn't pencil out anymore, unless you drive for a living. Then you put enough miles on the truck while earning revenue for it to pay. There is no gasoline pickup truck engine that can haul as much as quickly and as efficiently as a diesel.
That's what I've been told. I think it's BS.
Emissions have killed most of the fuel economy advantage a diesel had, and driven up the cost. The only real advantage is power.
You pay $20,000 (for the sake of argument) extra for the diesel option (because you can't just get a basic truck with a diesel, it has to have the special transmission and a whole bunch of fancy trim level stuff too) when the truck is new. The truck is NOT worth $20,000 more than a gasser in the same condition when you go to sell it.
It just doesn't pencil out anymore, unless you drive for a living. Then you put enough miles on the truck while earning revenue for it to pay. There is no gasoline pickup truck engine that can haul as much as quickly and as efficiently as a diesel.
Was that pic taken in the 2010s? Well at least 4 years ago or so?
We are around $3 for gas and $4.50 for diesel.
Your prices a diesel used to pay for itself, now they have so much extra equipment on them and stuff to lower the mileage and dependability of what used to be a good
dependable long lasting engine its a good question .
Paul
We are around $3 for gas and $4.50 for diesel.
Your prices a diesel used to pay for itself, now they have so much extra equipment on them and stuff to lower the mileage and dependability of what used to be a good
dependable long lasting engine its a good question .
Paul
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
Agree!
And what do you do with it if there is a major engine failure before you sell it?
And what do you do with it if there is a major engine failure before you sell it?
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
If the truck can clock on 50,000 miles each year, or
80,000 km, doing commercial work for some 10 years.
Only then might it start to break even, providing the
body hasnt rotted off from road salt. Gas trucks can
run 250-300, 000 miles with care and good
maintenance, but very few can be pushed out to
500,000 miles. The cost of regular maintenance and
higher fuel cost and the now troublesome DEF
emissions have made a diesel pickup a poor choice for
the average Joe.
80,000 km, doing commercial work for some 10 years.
Only then might it start to break even, providing the
body hasnt rotted off from road salt. Gas trucks can
run 250-300, 000 miles with care and good
maintenance, but very few can be pushed out to
500,000 miles. The cost of regular maintenance and
higher fuel cost and the now troublesome DEF
emissions have made a diesel pickup a poor choice for
the average Joe.
I agree with you. When I went diesel, gas engines still had carburetors and point ignition. Diesel was cheaper than gas back then
too. My gas pickup now is electronic ignition and injected. Like Bruce said, if you're using it commercially for hauling, sure,
it'll cost more to operate the diesel, but I think you'll make it up in longevity, but I've been saying for years now, if you come
on here saying you ''need'' a diesel because you haul a fertilizer spreader home twice a year, you're just looking for validation
from other diesel owners. The average guy might want a diesel for whatever personal reason, but he doesn't ''need'' it.
too. My gas pickup now is electronic ignition and injected. Like Bruce said, if you're using it commercially for hauling, sure,
it'll cost more to operate the diesel, but I think you'll make it up in longevity, but I've been saying for years now, if you come
on here saying you ''need'' a diesel because you haul a fertilizer spreader home twice a year, you're just looking for validation
from other diesel owners. The average guy might want a diesel for whatever personal reason, but he doesn't ''need'' it.
Back when gas was 2.39 and Diesel was
2.89. Hauling our antique pulling
tractors. Going 150 miles, pulling 5000 lb
on our trailers. My 6.2 gas Ford used the
exact same dollars. As buddies 6.7 diesel.
But His diesel sure did it easier without
shifting. My gas downshifts and turns 5500
or so on every hill. But will hold 75 on
most all hills.
2.89. Hauling our antique pulling
tractors. Going 150 miles, pulling 5000 lb
on our trailers. My 6.2 gas Ford used the
exact same dollars. As buddies 6.7 diesel.
But His diesel sure did it easier without
shifting. My gas downshifts and turns 5500
or so on every hill. But will hold 75 on
most all hills.
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
I still havent figured out why some on this forum concern themselves with what someone else drives.
For heavy haulers... its still cheaper. For occasional weekenders.. no longer viable. But a thousand lbs of torque still pulls more, and cheaper that gas. Politics... why did diesel suddenly jump percentage wise to gas?? Probably being sold out of country due to world changes?? I know that lng is being sold off as fast as the ships can load it.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Took the images a couple of hours ago .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
It averaged 26mpg on trips . Had a huge trunk and the back seat fit three child seats . And it was the quickest North American vehicle 1986-1989.
496,000 Km on it . Most cars of the era did not make half of that distance .
Dieseltech
Well-known Member
- Location
- Akron, Indiana
I have a one ton L5P diesel because the truck has a trailer on it 95% of the time and need the pulling torque the turbo diesel provides.
It's not about saving money, it's about saving aggravation. I have previously had a gas 1T DRW pickup and now the last two diesel and I have put many years and miles on each one and I would not consider going back to gas. The diesels have handled every bit of abuse I've thrown at them with flying colors, something the gas one didn't really do. Less aggravation = longer life expectancy or some such...
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The Diesels are usually less trouble than the Blonds .
Blackhole49
Well-known Member
- Location
- White Lake MI
My only question is: With offers over $60,000, why do you still own it?
John in MD
Member
- Location
- Md
Send those tire kickers my way for the Ford. My 97 F350 with 7.3 Power Stroke, 5 speed has 72k miles. I ordered it as a Plain Jane farm truck in April of 97 and out the door price was $28500. That motor was a $5k option back then.
the tractor vet
Well-known Member
When i bought my Dodge i figured it would save me some money , diesel was less then gas , they got better mileage. .BUT not long after i got my 95 Fuel prices started up and Oh wait i was ot getting the mileage that everyone was claiming . Hummm something is wrong here ,so since i was not up on the 5.9 Cummins i went up to the Cummins storeand had a long chat with the service manager who i have knowen for years and Bobby took me on a tour of the 5.9 as they had several scattered across a couple benches and some talk with a couple of the guys that worked on them. Bobby then ran the engine S/N and found that oh wait it had never been PUT IN SERVICE . What that means and NOT uncommon for the ones in Dodge trucks is that it has never come back in to either a Cummins shop or back to the dealer to have the after break in check up and setting reset . Mine since it was USED and 25000 miles past the FREE BE the cost of them to do it could get really expensive really fast now. Bobby then said why aske me to do it when your darn good at working on the big Cummins DIY it by the Snap On 5.9 tool Kit and go for it and i will give you all the spec.s ya need and knowing you you will be in the pump so lets go have a talk with the pump guy . So i dug into doing it and what i found was valves way out of adjustment . A.F.C. set way to tight Fuel plate choked off and when done i gained five MPG faster throttle response and far better performance in the hills . and that was great . Now as to how well it would pull a trailer we never got that far as i never got the flat bed i was building for it done when the farm economy went to the out house . So i just left the uglybox on the back and used it as a service truck . Also what i can tell you is my truck plum sucks out on the big road on a trip and the box kills fuel mileage . Out on the open road tryen to run just the speed limits at around 72 -75 she is at factory gov. max and now with the low sulfur fuel she get 14 to 15 mpg . Partly due to the BOX and the 4.10 gear . Now my old 88 Ford with the 460 with the 4.10 it would avg 14-15 out on the open road empty truck or even with and empty trailer . With it when i had the trailer on i never used overdrive and the 460 had a sweet spot between 2850 and 3400 rpm , the cummins at the sweet spot even in O D is a turtle crawl as that is 1950 down to around 1450 and flat out 2550 gov run out STOCK . Here gas the other day was 2.69.9 and diesel was 5.05.9 . Now my 88 460 was NOT stock so to speak as i did change cam timing back to what the 1969-71 385 block engines ran for cam timing and i was running a 92 model year ECM with a total advance ing timing of 36 degrees at 2000RPM . When the truck stayed running she ran great BUT she lived up to the fix or repair daily . Now would i go back to Gas , yep if i could get a 460 and we could get rid of the GREMLINS and jump up atleast one size bigger in the U/Joint dept. NO i don't want one of these new small Cu. In. high RPM turbo charged things they are shoven down our throats and no i don't want a slush box for a transmission controlled by a computer .
redforlife
Well-known Member
I worked at a dealership in the later half
of the 90,s. The salesman and owner of the
business, sat down out of bordem one day,
and figured it up. He used the factory mpg
ratings of the new gas and diesel pick-up
engines at the time, and current fuel
prices. Current fuel prices at that time I
believe were alot closer than what we've
been seeing now, but I think gas was
cheaper, but not by much. I think he even
factored in the higher cost of an oil
change of a diesel.
Anyways, it came out to be an un-believable
amount of miles that had to be driven
before the diesel broke over the margin of
paying for the extra expense of itself. It
seemed like the figure ended up being
somewhere in between 2 and 300k miles.
He commented after figuring it up, that the
people buying these new diesels, wouldn't
drive the vehicle long enough for it to
pencil out (meaning they'd trade it before
ever reaching those kind of miles). And
wouldn't get thier extra money back upon
trade because of other people knowing this.
(The last part might not be true today,
because of the number of people today, who
just wants a diesel for makeshift reasons).
But the fuel price part of it, is actually
way worse than it was back then. Fuel
prices today alone, would have to take the
high figured mentioned, up even higher.
Diesels all and all, might be lower
maintenance. But if you have to do any
mechanical work to them at all, it's
generally much much more expensive. And
general upkeep is too. When you replace
batteries, you replace 2 instead of one.
When you replace antifreeze, it holds more.
The exhaust has got to be more expensive to
buy and replace. The list goes on.
Diesels seem to be more common now though.
I looked around for a used truck 8 months
ago. Seemed to be about as many diesels
sitting on used lots as thier were gas
(talking full sized 3/4 ton pick-ups).
I don't get it, though. Is what I am
seeing, and the part that I don't get, is a
super lot of people getting a diesel pick-
up to pull thier camper to the lake 3 times
a year, and using the same truck as a
dailey driver to go to work and back. And
thier commute to work requires nothing more
than a small car. I don't get it. I'd like
to say to those people, happy trails to
throwing your money away. I know, I know,
it's thier money, and I have no right to
saying something like that. But it's
essentially what they are doing.
By the way, I bought a gas in my efforts of
looking for a truck. Never even had a
diesel in mind while I was shopping. I do
pull trailers, yes. But not all that often.
And I personally don't need a diesel just
because of that.
of the 90,s. The salesman and owner of the
business, sat down out of bordem one day,
and figured it up. He used the factory mpg
ratings of the new gas and diesel pick-up
engines at the time, and current fuel
prices. Current fuel prices at that time I
believe were alot closer than what we've
been seeing now, but I think gas was
cheaper, but not by much. I think he even
factored in the higher cost of an oil
change of a diesel.
Anyways, it came out to be an un-believable
amount of miles that had to be driven
before the diesel broke over the margin of
paying for the extra expense of itself. It
seemed like the figure ended up being
somewhere in between 2 and 300k miles.
He commented after figuring it up, that the
people buying these new diesels, wouldn't
drive the vehicle long enough for it to
pencil out (meaning they'd trade it before
ever reaching those kind of miles). And
wouldn't get thier extra money back upon
trade because of other people knowing this.
(The last part might not be true today,
because of the number of people today, who
just wants a diesel for makeshift reasons).
But the fuel price part of it, is actually
way worse than it was back then. Fuel
prices today alone, would have to take the
high figured mentioned, up even higher.
Diesels all and all, might be lower
maintenance. But if you have to do any
mechanical work to them at all, it's
generally much much more expensive. And
general upkeep is too. When you replace
batteries, you replace 2 instead of one.
When you replace antifreeze, it holds more.
The exhaust has got to be more expensive to
buy and replace. The list goes on.
Diesels seem to be more common now though.
I looked around for a used truck 8 months
ago. Seemed to be about as many diesels
sitting on used lots as thier were gas
(talking full sized 3/4 ton pick-ups).
I don't get it, though. Is what I am
seeing, and the part that I don't get, is a
super lot of people getting a diesel pick-
up to pull thier camper to the lake 3 times
a year, and using the same truck as a
dailey driver to go to work and back. And
thier commute to work requires nothing more
than a small car. I don't get it. I'd like
to say to those people, happy trails to
throwing your money away. I know, I know,
it's thier money, and I have no right to
saying something like that. But it's
essentially what they are doing.
By the way, I bought a gas in my efforts of
looking for a truck. Never even had a
diesel in mind while I was shopping. I do
pull trailers, yes. But not all that often.
And I personally don't need a diesel just
because of that.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
That's per LITER. Multiply it times 3.78 to get an equivalent price in US gallons, then apply the Canada-US exchange rate.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Oh, and the manufacturers stopped promoting diesels as a way to save money a LONG time ago.
Now, it's all about horsepower and how much you can tow.
Now, it's all about horsepower and how much you can tow.
Bill in Colo
Member
- Location
- Rio Blanco County, Co
I own two diesel pickups and when I bought them I pulled trailers weekly, I live at 6000 Ft
nearly everywhere I go is uphill. It doesn't make sense to me to buy a gas truck when the
two I have still work and look good. Maybe a gas truck would be ok if they had factory
turbos as a option for those of us that live in the Mountain West.
nearly everywhere I go is uphill. It doesn't make sense to me to buy a gas truck when the
two I have still work and look good. Maybe a gas truck would be ok if they had factory
turbos as a option for those of us that live in the Mountain West.
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
A friend delivered eggs with a pickup for many years. When he expanded, and refrigeration became a requirement, he went through
several box trucks. IH low profile. Iveco. Two Isuzus. He has settled on two Isuzus with GM 6.0L gas engines, and is finally
happy. Especially now with the fuel prices! Maintenance was a constant hassle with all of the diesels. So in this situation, maybe
a little beyond a pickup, diesel just didn't work.
several box trucks. IH low profile. Iveco. Two Isuzus. He has settled on two Isuzus with GM 6.0L gas engines, and is finally
happy. Especially now with the fuel prices! Maintenance was a constant hassle with all of the diesels. So in this situation, maybe
a little beyond a pickup, diesel just didn't work.
flying belgian
Well-known Member
The picture shows the GMC being the haulie not the hauler. Should get better then 18 mpg that way.
The younger generation around here drive a lot of those black smoking chip changing big smoke pipe 4ft off the ground big 22.5 tired
pick-ups . this morning they were taking turns in the heated shop warming up their fuel so the thing would run! 0 degrees and gelled
fuel = no smoke and get Your walking shoes warmed up LOL Roy
pick-ups . this morning they were taking turns in the heated shop warming up their fuel so the thing would run! 0 degrees and gelled
fuel = no smoke and get Your walking shoes warmed up LOL Roy
Tony in SD
Well-known Member
I have never bought a diesel pickup to same money. I buy diesels for the power & torque. I pull all kinds of trailers including a 40 foot plus 5th wheel RV. It has been a long time since I used a gas pickup or
event compared the all inclusive differential costs for a long time. But I would hate to buy a new gas and find out it didnt have the power and torque of a diesel. Money isn't everything. My comfort zone is
more important.
event compared the all inclusive differential costs for a long time. But I would hate to buy a new gas and find out it didnt have the power and torque of a diesel. Money isn't everything. My comfort zone is
more important.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Ministry of health and ministry of education have went back to gas ambulances gas school buses . Fire Department panel bans and support vehicles are mostly gas .
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
That is the trend here in Florida as well.
School buses
Ambulances
Fire trucks (less than a pumper)
UPS delivery vans
Have all dumped the diesel overs versions.
Northvale PA
Member
My 93 F250 gas with the 5.8. Only 78k original miles so far. I hit a deer with it 2 weeks ago. Zero damage. Whewwww.......
Arvin Haslem
Member
In my area there are a LOT of diesel pickups. A lot of them are on farms and ranches. A lot of them are used in the oilfield. And then
a lot of them get used to haul around the oversized egos of their owners. The biggest payload some of them will ever haul will be a few
bags of groceries.
a lot of them get used to haul around the oversized egos of their owners. The biggest payload some of them will ever haul will be a few
bags of groceries.
Diesels have turned into a fad. My 350 Chevy will pull
my 30 foot camper 65 MPH all day long. Your diesel
will pull it 70 MPH and the milage is close to being
the same. Back when I was 18 I had a 1968 Mercedes
Benz diesel,35 MPG stick,not a bad car but everytime
something broke it was a hundred dollar bill,today
that means a grand. Maybe I am just getting old, but I
drive a Kenworth about 35,000 miles a year and it will
run 70 all day long, and right now is has been in the
shop for 7 days just for an O ring on an injector,I
could put one in the chevy myself for 2 hours labor.
my 30 foot camper 65 MPH all day long. Your diesel
will pull it 70 MPH and the milage is close to being
the same. Back when I was 18 I had a 1968 Mercedes
Benz diesel,35 MPG stick,not a bad car but everytime
something broke it was a hundred dollar bill,today
that means a grand. Maybe I am just getting old, but I
drive a Kenworth about 35,000 miles a year and it will
run 70 all day long, and right now is has been in the
shop for 7 days just for an O ring on an injector,I
could put one in the chevy myself for 2 hours labor.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
A lot of it was for farmers and the custom cutters on the plains was you only had to keep one fuel for all. Then original theory was before all the clear fuel nonsense. They used one fuel and could pump fuel for the tractors,combines and such then use what they needed out of the same tank. This made fuel easier to keep on hand and saved on the fuel tax too. Then the use with better mileage and no fooling around with plugs wires and such made the diesel practical. Probably for those uses along with the pulling of header trailers each week for a day then pull whatever they needed to made it work out for them. I know when I was out there it made sense in the late 80'searly 90's we had one pickup with a 460 on a gas switch to propane deal and it was always a problem with fuel since the boss would not go over the change over with the guy driving it. It would keep up on a bunkhouse but headers it was a different story and he only used it the one year and was gone for a diesel. I bought my first diesel for the purpose of being able to pull more easier with wagons and equipment from farm to elevator and that gearbox never once was a problem versus the old slush boxes everybody was starting to have problems with. I would prefer a gear box behind any engine over the slush box for speed control pulling slow loads like wagons or equipment. Currently I would like to find an old Dodge 3/4 for the heavier axles and truck to use for transporting equipment from one farm to the other at times. Bigger tillage equipment is getting to heavy to use regular pickups for that. The disc supposedly weighs in around 30,000 according to Sunflowers website spec figures. I would not want to pull that with a regular pickup by the bumper. I don't even like using the 856 to transport it.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
I don't think most folks buy diesels because they think the total cost of ownership is cheaper. They buy them because they think they're better suited for the particular duty they intend to use them for. Now, that duty might only consist of driving down to 7-11 and leaving them idling while they go inside to buy a cup of coffee, but there's no denying that nothing does that better than a stinking diesel. I own a Duramax, by the way, but I'm more of a Starbucks guy than 7-11.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
"...but don't you DARE concern yourself with what I am doing!"
The double standard is real.
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
You forgot "...and how I am doing it but my way is better because Im older and dont like change!"
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Mostly owners who ran full boost on low octane fuel .
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