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Gas Furnace repair, who can you trust?

Geo-TH,In

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
Two different people were told they needed a new furnace because they had a cracked heat exchanger by two different HVAC repairman.

I told both people to call the gas company. The Gas company will be there immediately and check for a CO leak.

This morning I went to my friends house, the guy with horses, to deliver him 2 electric space heaters, a digital CO detector and looked at his furnace.

The HVAC repairman left the hose off the pressure switch that detects if the fan is running and sucking the exhaust out of the condensing furnace. So I removed the pressure switch. When I turned it upside down, condensat ran out. That's a NO, NO. I sucked gently on the vacuum side and switch closed like it should. Business must be slow and he wanted to replace the furnace.

After removing water from switch, I put hose where it belongs, and furnace fired up. Digital CO alarm showed no CO. If there was any CO I would detect it, instant headache like I get with diesel exhaust. He's going to confirm CO by calling gas company.

WHO CAN YOU TRUST?

Have you been a victim of a repairman's scam?
I told friend he needs to clean drain line which is also used as evaporator drain that tends to choke up.

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I've often wondered about those heat exchanger issues they tell a guy about. They can tell you just about anything they want and a guy wouldn't know whether to believe him or not. Years ago when we went to a mid-efficiency furnace, we have several issues with the furnace not igniting properly (after a few years). A service man came out and told me ..... "Watch this, I'm gonna show you how to clean the heat sensor and you can do it yourself next time" ...... pretty easy fix, easy to get to and repair. Eventually, I replaced it with a new one and haven't had an problems sense.
 
I would continue to monitor the CO and CO2 levels after the furnace was turned back on. Most housed have enough air leaks to turn over the air several times an hour and many times a day. Unless a bad pressure switch actually allowed the furnace to run without the exhaust fan running, the bad pressure switch does not explain why there was a CO build up inside the house.

Some states require CO detectors in all housing. It might not be a bad ideal to leave the temporary CO detector there permanently.
 
Finding an honest shop with honest people. Is getting hard to do these days. I get 2-3 calls a week. From people that were lied too on their generators.
 
This for me was a difficult job. Rarely did I condemn a furnace on pressure switch only. Carrier furnaces had some that the secondary would fail due to the coating coming loose. Can?t see or will it pass co. Switches are measured in inches so sucking or blowing will not give a good example. Cracked heat exchanger can be visible and yet not pass co. Certain furnaces were prone to fail and the only thing showing is a failed switch but you better have checked all line and were using a manometer with the correct capacity. Age becomes a problem also. I have also been to units that visibly had cracked and the owners would not change. Laws now dictate what can be left on but it sounds like the tech was not real thorough. Second opinions are always best unless you trust the company doing the work. References are good.
 
The problem is, if you're honest, you don't make as much money, so the temptation is always there to chisel a bit. I did run into one honest outfit- my heat pump at the office quit working, it was older and probably overdue to be replaced, so I was mentally prepared to get a new one. Guy came out, said he would run some tests (I watched him through the window, in full sunlight on a 100 degree day), and soon he came in and said I just needed a new flux capacitor or some such, and charged me a reasonable price. I thanked him for his honesty, and he asked if I had been around the area for a long time (I had). Kind of a curious question, I thought, until he winked and said "We're trying to earn a reputation as straight shooters". I got it then- the previous owner of the business they had bought was a fairly notorious crook.

Honesty worked, in that case- when I did indeed need a new one a couple years later, and needed service on the unit at home, they were the only outfit I called.
 
This was a no brainer. No pressure switch will work full of condensate. A choked drain will cause water in pressure switch.

This is a condensing furnace. High efficiency furnace.
 
(quoted from post at 12:13:09 01/20/19)

After removing water from switch, I put hose where it belongs, and furnace fired up. Digital CO alarm showed no CO. If there was any CO I would detect it, instant headache like I get with diesel exhaust. He's going to confirm CO by calling gas company.
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No! No, no, no!

What type of "digital CO alarm" are you using to take readings? Is this an actual instant-detection commercial meter? Or are you trying to use a homeowner safety alarm as a diagnostic tool?

Did you actually look at the heat exchanger?

You will not necessarily get an instant headache from CO like you do from diesel exhaust. The buildup could be much slower than that, even from a badly leaking exchanger. Also, gas is much cleaner burning than diesel, so there is no comparison between the two.

This is NOT an area where fixes should be conducted by amateurs. If TWO services said the exchanger is leaking, I would tend to believe it. At the very least, I'd want to watch while they were taking readings to verify there was acutally CO being put into the inside air by a leaking exchanger.

And then why did they say the exchanger cannot be replace?

I'm not against fixing what can be fixed, but messing with CO is messing with death. This is NOT an area where a guy wants to go against the professionals and be wrong.

Grouse
 
STRANGE that the air pressure switch is mounted so condensate can accumulate inside the unit, I can't recall seeing any mounted that way.

With a little longer hoses it could be turned 180?.

Below is a link to a good article on checking heat exchangers for cracks and leakage, a lot of ides and opinions.
LEAKS?
 
HVAC repairman made sure the furnace wouldn't work by removing
vacuum line to switch.
I had to get furnace working so the Gas company can check for
leaks.
Would anyone like to place a bet gas company doesn't find
anything wrong with the furnace????
 
I thought it would be better to flip pressure switch too, but hose wasn't long enough. Friend is going to buy longer hose and put a loop in it so any condensate will collect in loop and he can see when his drain line is choked.

Gas company will check for CO leaks.
 
You might have helped your friend out & you just might have helped someone die. A cracked heat exchanger is nothing to play with! Yes you found a faulty switch that was causing an issue but did you scope that furnace to find the crack the technician saw? Heat exchangers are condemned by visual & it doesn't matter if it's just a hairline crack.

Around here that furnace would have been disabled (like that one was - but more completely) and red tagged. Gas co would have been notified to cut the gas supply. Youuld have been locked up for messing with it.

What you did was dangerous & illegal. The gas company can't help unless they have a certified HVAC technician who is willing to certify there is nothing wrong with that heat exchanger & the liability is so great that rarely happens.
 
I really think you are in over your head, there are other things that can lead to a cracked diagnosis.

Before doing this, you should talk with the technician and find out why they determined this.
 
You bit off a big bite of more than you can chew. If your gas company will take on the liability of putting a furnace condemned by a contractor back in service I?d be shocked, and you shouldn?t have done it either. Relying on an alarm to protect you from a known bad heat exchanger is a dumb thing to do, and a good way to get somebody killed.

Your posts are often about how much smarter you are than us lowlifes who make a living in the trades, or about how we are all thieves. It gets old after a while, especially since neither thing is particularly true. Stick to your Cadillac and your mini hoe and leave the heat exchangers to the pros.
 
My Mom was sold a new furnace and all the old one needed was a thermo coupling for the pilot light ! Once I questioned her about it she called the owner of the company and got a refund and the old one put back in. Sister had a person trying to sell her an expensive blower motor. Had another place come and it was just the batteries in the thermostat ! So yes there is a lot of frauds running repair businesses. Guy that just did my furnace repair I asked about cracked heat exchanger. Since I had A/C coil and there was not really an access hole to visually look he said it is very hard to tell. He said sometimes you can tell by how the flame acts when it runs ? I needed a new gas valve and new nozzles. Parts are pretty expensive. Time will tell if I'd of been money ahead to just get a new furnace ? depends on how many future parts fail ?
 
When the heat exchanger in my high efficiency furnace got a leak the exhaust pipe outside started to build up black soot. If the heat exchanger isn't leaking the exhaust pipe will be nice and clean. The furnace was only a few years old, out of warranty, and the dealer said it would be cheaper to get a new furnace than try to replace the exchanger. He gave me a good discount on a new unite. A few years after that there was a recall on the original furnace because of heat exchanger failures. The recall applied to several brands. One company made the heat exchangers for several brands. My furnace was included in the recall. After sending the class action lawyers (date purchased, cost, etc.) the lawyers kept coming back for more information. Finally asked them what I could expect in compensation. It came to about $30 so I told the lawyer to forget it because I had gotten a better deal from my dealer in the form of a discount. And yes, I did get an alarm on my CO detector which started the whole process. I wouldn't be without a CO detector.
 
I am a PROFESSIONAL HVAC MECHANIC. There is no way I would have put that unit back in service without inspection of the heat exchanger. There are a pile of test instruments that can be used to check for CO in the space the LAST ONE TO USE IS A BOX STORE CO DETECTOR. I have to ask how many years you have in the HVAC trade, and blowing out window shakers 40 years ago at a steel mill does not count. The next question is how much insurance do you carry to put that unit back in service. It's a terrible idea to call the gas company they sell gas not service. The main thing they care about is that the pipe carrying the gas does not leak. I bet they (for liability) will shut it off and not say one way or the other if a CO leak is present. Let the life safety decisions to the pros. Sorry to blast you here but it is needed.

rrc300 u, 19 years in a service truck, all of them honest and making good money.
 
Fitter, I assume you are referring back to George right? Hmmm, after reading your post I can only come to the conclusion that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to post something here at YT without getting flamed by someone who has a bone to pick. Holy smokes Fitter, relax a bit for heaven's sake !!!
 

When it comes to propane or natural gas, I trust the guy who makes his living working on such things. I will not touch it.
 
If you are honest with the gas company and tell them the heat exchanger was condemned by a licensed HVAC tech because it is cracked I would take that bet in a heartbeat.

My guess is you won't & they won't. Still don't make it safe!

BTW, just so you know, you aren't the first & won't be the last to try. You would be surprised by how many people call someone else to patch up a condemned unit without telling them it was condemned because the heat exchanger was cracked. Most of the time it doesn't fly but sometimes it does. I learned to never trust a new call or one that someone else has worked on. You either turn the job down or go over it with a fine toothed comb. I normally turn it down. There are more dishonest home owners than dishonest HVAC techs. JMO
 
I have fitters back on this one. I read here a pile don't post much, however this could easily be a dead family in the morning. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
 
I have to ask. If water was left where it does not belong and hoses dissconnected how much of a pro was it. They should have been able to find that water if he could and a hose left unhooked, How much does that sound like a pro to you, to me not much, just like the person that changes a tire on your car and puts the lug nuts on only finger tight. Same thing, did not finnish the job.
 
RRC: Well, I do like your last 8 words at least, funny I must admit. My reply had nothing to do with anything about furnaces or safety really. But I meant exactly what I said. Here, read it again, you missed something .... and I just realized there was a little pun in my reply, see if you can find it.

"Fitter, I assume you are referring back to George right? Hmmm, after reading your post I can only come to the conclusion that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to post something here at YT without getting flamed by someone who has a bone to pick. Holy smokes Fitter, relax a bit for heaven's sake !!!"
 
The bottom line here is that you are gambling with someone else life in an area where you are not trained.

Is that worth a few extra bucks?

If the family is short of cash, help them with the purchase.
 
If leaving the thing out if service what does it matter, and why would that hose and switch need repositioning after years of service? There is a reason water got there in the first place.
 
I'm answering way down here as I watch professionals gig George on a safety issue. On the older, non-condensing furnaces, the heat exchanger can crack BUT that doesn't mean you get co at deadly levels in the structure. Why? Because, like a fireplace, the 'draw' up the chimney pulls all gases and condensate outdoors. The largest Company in Des Moines had a scam (don't know what else to call it) wherein a person them called to get a furnace operating and the serviceman would do a 'free' checkup for a cracked exchanger. He'd get the furnace operating (usually a failed thermocouple) then have the homeowner go watch at a vent for smoke from his handheld smoke generator. He'd pull the filter out enough for the generator to get in the intake and the homeowner invariably yelled 'I see smoke'. The servicer would, if it was a lady, hug her and tell her 'you probably saved your Life'. And offer to replace that faulty furnace. Remember, this is going back about 40 years and the replacement costs for a furnace then was around $4000.00. Way too expensive for the average widow or pensioner. So, the servicer would say 'we have several good units at our shop that have been tested and cleaned and I think we can get one for you at $1500.00 installed. More often than not, the customer would jump on that deal. The customer got a 'new' (to them) furnace and THEIR old furnace went in to get cleaned along with a paint job to be re-sold. My in-laws used them for AC work--every year in the spring their central AC would run low on Freon and every year they'd have eight or nine pounds added. ON THE GAUGE. The whole system, if completely empty, had a capacity of nine pounds. They were being charged for that gauge which likely only meant two or three pounds actual liquid. I have a leak detector and found that the low pressure line was leaking at the condenser-next to where Freon is added. 1/2 turn and no more leak or yearly service call.
 
(quoted from post at 15:41:03 01/20/19) If leaving the thing out if service what does it matter, and why would that hose and switch need repositioning after years of service? There is a reason water got there in the first place.
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"why would that hose and switch need repositioning after years of service? There is a reason water got there in the first place."

Manufacturers don't always get things "right", ONE example, Weil Mclain GV-5 boiler... company came up with a retrofit kit to keep condensate out of the air pressure switch and tubing.
 
Did you ever think he may have left that off so the furnace would not run?

I would think not disabling a furnace that could be compromised would be unlawful for him.
 
(quoted from post at 16:18:27 01/20/19) Did you ever think he may have left that off so the furnace would not run?

I would think not disabling a furnace that could be compromised would be unlawful for him.
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"I would think not disabling a furnace that could be compromised would be unlawful for him."

If there are any such laws, I would think it would be on a state-by-state basis.

Some years ago there was a disreputable heating outfit in my area that had their own "red tag" condemnation tags printed up saying "this furnace is condemned under law", etc., etc., and they raked in a lot of $$$ from scaring old folks nearly to death and replacing their furnaces, and not with top-rate stuff, the way it seemed to me.

Finally, the (older and appearing trustworthy) owner passed away, leaving the business to his sons, and it didn't last long, maybe they didn't appear as trustworthy?

At one point, after an elderly friend was nearly scammed by them, I made a bunch of phone calls to various State agencies, and no one could direct me to any agency dealing with "condemnation" of furnaces, or any such law in my state.

I asked an attorney friend about it, and he had no knowledge of any such thing.

But that was ONE state, and 15 or so years ago, so there could be a LOT of variations to this.

I can definitely see having the reg tags ready to attach to a TRULY bad appliance is DEFINITELY a good idea, not to mention "CYA" for the service company.

But doing it as a "scam" and mentioning a non-existent "law", NOT so nice!
 
David,
The service tech wasn't smart enough to get the furnace working so how could he determine there was a crack in exchanger. That's when the service tech said there is a crack in the heat exchanger, you need a new furnace.
I told friend to call gas company to have CO levels tested and I gave him a new CO alarm.
It was obviously to me his condensate drain is the problem and I told him to clean it. He said he has cleaned many times in the past.
Lot of hysterical post here from people who don't know all the facts. You can't determine a cracked heat exchanger without furnace working unless you take heat exchanger out and tech didn't disassemble furnace.
 
Jim's input. Test the CO device with a gas flame at a stove or candle. Understand that there have been a radical number of Coleman/evcon furnaces recalled (mostly from mobile homes). Restrictions of exhaust, intake, or condensate can cause non operation and not be cracked exchanger. Real testing is really needed. I had a Pulse One furnace with a cracked exchanger. The test done (really good local HVAC company -- Mechanical Energy Systems (not a chain)) was to blank it off and pressurize it. leakdown pressures were checked and it failed radically. Be careful. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 16:54:23 01/20/19) David,
The service tech wasn't smart enough to get the furnace working so how could he determine there was a crack in exchanger. That's when the service tech said there is a crack in the heat exchanger, you need a new furnace.
I told friend to call gas company to have CO levels tested and I gave him a new CO alarm.
It was obviously to me his condensate drain is the problem and I told him to clean it. He said he has cleaned many times in the past.
Lot of hysterical post here from people who don't know all the facts. You can't determine a cracked heat exchanger without furnace working unless you take heat exchanger out and tech didn't disassemble furnace.
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"You can't determine a cracked heat exchanger without furnace working "

You can at least do a basic heat exchanger leak test with a "smoke bomb" or "smoke generator".

Some leaks may not show up/leak much until the heat exchanger heats up and the metal expands, possibly opening up a crack more.

Did you read through the link I posted, George, not bad info for any of us that live with or may work on a fuel-burning appliance.
 
The old "you got a cracked heat exchanger" line. Once the repairman figures out the age of the furnace thats what they go to.

At work years ago we had a furnace replaced because it had a "crack". We kept the old furnace and disassembled it. No crack.

Make them show it to you before you pay the bill.
 
(quoted from post at 17:54:23 01/20/19) David,
The service tech wasn't smart enough to get the furnace working so how could he determine there was a crack in exchanger. That's when the service tech said there is a crack in the heat exchanger, you need a new furnace.
I told friend to call gas company to have CO levels tested and I gave him a new CO alarm.
It was obviously to me his condensate drain is the problem and I told him to clean it. He said he has cleaned many times in the past.
Lot of hysterical post here from people who don't know all the facts. You can't determine a cracked heat exchanger without furnace working unless you take heat exchanger out and tech didn't disassemble furnace.
Click to expand...

Is that furnace a 1994???? It looks that old by serial number.

40 years in HVAC and have little experience with Coleman.

If it is more than 10 years in a mobile home it should be torn down, cleaned & inspected carefully.

Many of the older 90+ had issues and were updated or replaced along the way.

Most induced draft are fairly safe due do the inducer system & the pressure switch should not make on a broken heat ex.

Is the flame blue & steady or yellow and wavy?
 
I ran rental properties for thirty years. The simple test was to observe the flame as the circulation fan kicked on. Every time I had a cracked heat exchanger, we would see a noticeable change in the flame. I've been fed that line plenty of times. Furnace would act up, tenant would call an advertised HVAC rather than me. HVAC would "inspect" and tell them the heat exchanger was cracked. Most of the time I would buy older homes. The furnace was often the second thing that got replaced before we ever had a tenant in them.
 
On natural gas units the gas companies can and do inspect. It was a gas company tech who taught me how to test them. They are more trustworthy than HVAC companies because they have no profit from a sale.
 
So, just how did you determine that the HVAC tech was "licensed?"
As far as I know, there is no more license required to be in business than a simple business license and insurance. How else do you think some of these scam outfits get into business?? While there may be some level of licensing to work on HVAC equipment, I would bet that not every tech sent out on a call is licensed or certified.

First, while it takes a lot of will power not to flame George (he posts what he had for breakfast and what color his boxers are some days), you are going to the other extreme.

I am all for testing for the presence of CO. I am all for having it done by a professional. I am also for PROVING that there is a problem BEFORE fleecing people out of their hard earned money. When working with gas, I would ALWAYS err on the side of caution. Getting too casual with gas can be fatal. BUT, seems to me that the HVAC guy was called because the furnace was NOT WORKING. Condemning a furnace without proper testing is a bit hasty. Apparently a "short answer" guy.

What George did may not have been the best course of action, I doubt that there was any issue of legality.

Lastly, I do believe that the gas company WILL check and test for CO as well as checking the operation of the furnace. I know that the gas company that I have will not only do testing, they also do furnace replacements. After all, as has been said, their business is to sell gas. you can't sell gas to a dead customer. They have a vested interest in keeping their customers alive.
 
I wasn't aware of George being the target of YT'ers, it seems to be the case, but in this situation I am defending him for a simple reason. He (and numerous others) gets back-stabbed for making a post which was, considering some of the stuff I see here, relatively harmless. I visit several sites on a variety of topics. I have never seen any site with ANY of this rude and obnoxious behavior and comments towards others on the site. And there seems to be some in that never gets called out on it. Yet we are always bragging about being such a close-knit community. Perhaps you can give me a reason for why it happens so often here on this site? And maybe it does boil down to the webmasters here not paying any attention. If they can't seem to regulate OT posts on Tractor Talk, at least they should be able to monitor the poisonous postings that so often occur. Could it really take that much time? I don't think so. The reason they allow it is because perhaps they know that so many enjoy doing that and reading about others doing it. I rest my case, no further comments from me on this post but I will continue to comment on others who continue with the practice.
 
The may be true in the locality you are in but the utilities here in PA won't jump into that kind of diagnosis. They will lock it out at the meter with their lock and not turn it back on without a whole house pressure test and a written service report from an HVAC company stating all is well with the unit.
 
(quoted from post at 21:33:30 01/20/19) Did anyone say tractor???????????????? Please>...................
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Lost cause friend. Perfectly good off topic forum here that only a few use.

Understandable though because it seems most amateurs here profess to be more knowledgeable than trained professionals so I'm sure the fact that posting in the wrong forums is of little concern to them.

Now comes the "don't read it if you don't like it brigade."
 
Only thing this thread is missing is the guy that feels like he needs to point out a grammar or spelling error.

I enjoy the off topic stuff, kinda like a bunch of folks sitting around in a restaurant. A common interest keeps them together and that subject is the main focus but the other conversations are fun also.
 
WOW: In the first place if there were only tractor related discussions on here this forum could be read once every other week and easily kept up with.

On the other side this is the last place I'd ask for advice about a device in my home that could kill me and my family. My gas company will come and test my stuff and they don't sell furnaces or do repairs. Sorry, I don't trust yer nose. There are forums dealing with HAVC stuff with trained service persons who can give advice. Might cost a few buck but I'd do that rather than trust yer nose.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 12:58:01 01/21/19) WOW: [b:c8cdd7e464]In the first place if there were only tractor related discussions on here this forum could be read once every other week and easily kept up with.[/b:c8cdd7e464]

On the other side this is the last place I'd ask for advice about a device in my home that could kill me and my family. My gas company will come and test my stuff and they don't sell furnaces or do repairs. Sorry, I don't trust yer nose. There are forums dealing with HAVC stuff with trained service persons who can give advice. Might cost a few buck but I'd do that rather than trust yer nose.

Rick
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Which is why there is a forum called "Tractor Tales" that is supposedly dedicated to topics that are off topic in all other forums.

Any other sites that I frequent, and there are quite a few, the moderators move off topic posts from specific forums to the off topic forums.

Simple isn't it?

Anyway, you all carry on, trying to talk sense here is like spitting into the wind.
 
geo's "sin" here was that he rankled the "professionals" by daring to step into their territory!
 
Probably just an assumption on my part & many of the other Tech's who responded because we have the license, certification's, and degrees it took to get them. You can even get some advice which we aren't allowed to give on the HVAC sites I belong to.

George can do what he wants to in his own home. Don't have a problem with that. Playing with someone else's life is a whole nother ball game.

BTW, none of us know the laws in every state. That's why I said here.
 
(quoted from post at 08:52:43 01/21/19) geo's "sin" here was that he rankled the "professionals" by daring to step into their territory!
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No his sin here his that he's playing with something he has no professional training where IF he's right no harm. But IF he's wrong someone could die.

Plus he's doing something else without positive proof that he's right. He's accusing someone of wrong doing without positive proof he's right. Should he happen to be right he should march right down the the DA's office and better business folks. But they ain't gonna want to talk to him unless he has more that "he said she said" evidence.

Again for all those complaining about OT stuff. There are pages for specific brands. Most serious tractor discussion takes place there anyway. Having TT would then be ONLY for general tractor questions and nothing brand specific. Like what should I buy questions. Wanna talk Oliver? Go to the Oliver page and tell everyone how great Oliver is. AC? Same thing. That includes what kind of oil should I run in my JD or IH. If asking about a specific brand of tractor (and most often that's the case) then that would be where it would go if you guys get your way. Want to kill tractor talk? Get what you wish for. No one will post here about anything except wannabe's trying to figure out what to buy.

Rick
 
By now there was plenty of time for the original HVAC contractor to follow-up with the home owner, or for a gas company inspection, or for the home owner to get a second opinion from another HVAC contractor. Any results?
 
(quoted from post at 14:33:51 01/21/19) I said nothing about wanting to kill tractor talk!
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That wasn't aimed at you. That's for the purest who want nothing but tractor talk.

So lets see, YT has just about most tractors covered by name and "lesser known classics" Plus one for garden tractors. So if we kept it pure tractor talk like some want you would have to bar any brand specific questions like "what oil do I use in the AC CA". That would have to go to the AC board. Or the "here's one for you" meant for someone who likes a particular brand. That would have to go under that brand, I.E. Oliver and rrlund. You would only get generic tractor questions and answer. Like how big a tractor do I need to pull this size implement. No mentions of brands. No prayer request either. No questions about a car or truck, crops ect. Only stuff about tractors with no mention of a brand.

Now go and see how many tractor posts there are that don't mention a brand? If they did that here you might as well check "tractor talk" once every 6 months or so.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 21:47:28 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 14:33:51 01/21/19) I said nothing about wanting to kill tractor talk!
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That wasn't aimed at you. That's for the purest who want nothing but tractor talk.

So lets see, YT has just about most tractors covered by name and "lesser known classics" Plus one for garden tractors. So if we kept it pure tractor talk like some want you would have to bar any brand specific questions like "what oil do I use in the AC CA". That would have to go to the AC board. Or the "here's one for you" meant for someone who likes a particular brand. That would have to go under that brand, I.E. Oliver and rrlund. You would only get generic tractor questions and answer. Like how big a tractor do I need to pull this size implement. No mentions of brands. No prayer request either. No questions about a car or truck, crops ect. Only stuff about tractors with no mention of a brand.

Now go and see how many tractor posts there are that don't mention a brand? If they did that here you might as well check "tractor talk" once every 6 months or so.

Rick
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Sorry but you're missing the point, or at least my point. Any and all conversations about tractors and any other equipment is fine regardless of make.

It's topics like these---"Take a Poll On Original TV Series Westerns, Single Lambs, Sign The Get Well Card, Up Early, etc. that should go in the Off Topic Forum instead of Tractor Talk.

Yes, I know people like to talk about other things, you know, things that are "Off Topic" hence, the "Off Topic" forum is created. I just think it makes message boards seem much more organized.

Anyway, no point in saying anymore, I doubt anything will change.
 
(quoted from post at 20:19:33 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 21:47:28 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 14:33:51 01/21/19) I said nothing about wanting to kill tractor talk!
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That wasn't aimed at you. That's for the purest who want nothing but tractor talk.

So lets see, YT has just about most tractors covered by name and "lesser known classics" Plus one for garden tractors. So if we kept it pure tractor talk like some want you would have to bar any brand specific questions like "what oil do I use in the AC CA". That would have to go to the AC board. Or the "here's one for you" meant for someone who likes a particular brand. That would have to go under that brand, I.E. Oliver and rrlund. You would only get generic tractor questions and answer. Like how big a tractor do I need to pull this size implement. No mentions of brands. No prayer request either. No questions about a car or truck, crops ect. Only stuff about tractors with no mention of a brand.

Now go and see how many tractor posts there are that don't mention a brand? If they did that here you might as well check "tractor talk" once every 6 months or so.

Rick
Click to expand...

Sorry but you're missing the point, or at least my point. Any and all conversations about tractors and any other equipment is fine regardless of make.

It's topics like these---"Take a Poll On Original TV Series Westerns, Single Lambs, Sign The Get Well Card, Up Early, etc. that should go in the Off Topic Forum instead of Tractor Talk.

Yes, I know people like to talk about other things, you know, things that are "Off Topic" hence, the "Off Topic" forum is created. I just think it makes message boards seem much more organized.

Anyway, no point in saying anymore, I doubt anything will change.
Click to expand...

GOSH, Clarence, what's stopping you from starting your own highly moderated and CORRECT tractor Forum?

Probably would be (NOT) the busiest site on the 'net!

(Or, perhaps so, we won't know 'til you TRY!)

Who died and gave you the right to decide what our gracious hosts should tolerate here?
 
(quoted from post at 22:58:02 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 20:19:33 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 21:47:28 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 14:33:51 01/21/19) I said nothing about wanting to kill tractor talk!
Click to expand...

That wasn't aimed at you. That's for the purest who want nothing but tractor talk.

So lets see, YT has just about most tractors covered by name and "lesser known classics" Plus one for garden tractors. So if we kept it pure tractor talk like some want you would have to bar any brand specific questions like "what oil do I use in the AC CA". That would have to go to the AC board. Or the "here's one for you" meant for someone who likes a particular brand. That would have to go under that brand, I.E. Oliver and rrlund. You would only get generic tractor questions and answer. Like how big a tractor do I need to pull this size implement. No mentions of brands. No prayer request either. No questions about a car or truck, crops ect. Only stuff about tractors with no mention of a brand.

Now go and see how many tractor posts there are that don't mention a brand? If they did that here you might as well check "tractor talk" once every 6 months or so.

Rick
Click to expand...

Sorry but you're missing the point, or at least my point. Any and all conversations about tractors and any other equipment is fine regardless of make.

It's topics like these---"Take a Poll On Original TV Series Westerns, Single Lambs, Sign The Get Well Card, Up Early, etc. that should go in the Off Topic Forum instead of Tractor Talk.

Yes, I know people like to talk about other things, you know, things that are "Off Topic" hence, the "Off Topic" forum is created. I just think it makes message boards seem much more organized.

Anyway, no point in saying anymore, I doubt anything will change.
Click to expand...

GOSH, Clarence, what's stopping you from starting your own highly moderated and CORRECT tractor Forum?

Probably would be (NOT) the busiest site on the 'net!

(Or, perhaps so, we won't know 'til you TRY!)

Who died and gave you the right to decide what our gracious hosts should tolerate here?
Click to expand...

Who said I decided what should be done here? I was just pointing out how things could be, how others sites are run, you know, kinda like suggestions?

But you know what? I don't really care what is or isn't implemented here. I just drop in occasionally and actually post very little and by the time I see most threads that I can offer any help or information on, they have dropped out of sight on that archaic thing know as "Classic View" so my input on them is rarely seen or replied to as I use "Modern View" exclusively as it is far superior IMO.

One more thing, I see more wrong information about many things being perpetuated on these forums than others. Not that this is the only one though.

So really, I guess I'm pretty much wasting my time here
 
(quoted from post at 18:51:15 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 22:58:02 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 20:19:33 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 21:47:28 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 14:33:51 01/21/19) I said nothing about wanting to kill tractor talk!
Click to expand...

That wasn't aimed at you. That's for the purest who want nothing but tractor talk.

So lets see, YT has just about most tractors covered by name and "lesser known classics" Plus one for garden tractors. So if we kept it pure tractor talk like some want you would have to bar any brand specific questions like "what oil do I use in the AC CA". That would have to go to the AC board. Or the "here's one for you" meant for someone who likes a particular brand. That would have to go under that brand, I.E. Oliver and rrlund. You would only get generic tractor questions and answer. Like how big a tractor do I need to pull this size implement. No mentions of brands. No prayer request either. No questions about a car or truck, crops ect. Only stuff about tractors with no mention of a brand.

Now go and see how many tractor posts there are that don't mention a brand? If they did that here you might as well check "tractor talk" once every 6 months or so.

Rick
Click to expand...

Sorry but you're missing the point, or at least my point. Any and all conversations about tractors and any other equipment is fine regardless of make.

It's topics like these---"Take a Poll On Original TV Series Westerns, Single Lambs, Sign The Get Well Card, Up Early, etc. that should go in the Off Topic Forum instead of Tractor Talk.

Yes, I know people like to talk about other things, you know, things that are "Off Topic" hence, the "Off Topic" forum is created. I just think it makes message boards seem much more organized.

Anyway, no point in saying anymore, I doubt anything will change.
Click to expand...

GOSH, Clarence, what's stopping you from starting your own highly moderated and CORRECT tractor Forum?

Probably would be (NOT) the busiest site on the 'net!

(Or, perhaps so, we won't know 'til you TRY!)

Who died and gave you the right to decide what our gracious hosts should tolerate here?
Click to expand...

Who said I decided what should be done here? I was just pointing out how things could be, how others sites are run, you know, kinda like suggestions?

But you know what? I don't really care what is or isn't implemented here. I just drop in occasionally and actually post very little and by the time I see most threads that I can offer any help or information on, they have dropped out of sight on that archaic thing know as "Classic View" so my input on them is rarely seen or replied to as I use "Modern View" exclusively as it is far superior IMO.

One more thing, I see more wrong information about many things being perpetuated on these forums than others. Not that this is the only one though.

So really, I guess I'm pretty much wasting my time here
Click to expand...

OK, tell you what. Go and count how many post today? Now how many were about tractors only (no trucks or implements, remember it's [i:7b5e2294da][b:7b5e2294da]tractor[/b:7b5e2294da][/i:7b5e2294da] talk"? Bet it wasn't many. Cut all the other stuff out and it's will get mighty dead in here cause guys will go to the respective pages and "tractor talk" will die.

Heck you want info on a specific tractor? LOOK THAT BRAND UP. On this page mention a particular tractor and you get people claiming it's either great of a piece of junk. Never seen much in the way of tech info here either. Wanna know about a Ford look at the Ford page or IH go to IH.

Go look at some of the posts. Guy post a "hey, I'm new, just bought a ________" and someone will be right there telling him he messed up and that he should have bought a "_________". Now if he'd of just gone to the brand page he might actually get some good info.

Gee if you hate this so much why are you even here?

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 02:07:28 01/22/19)
(quoted from post at 18:51:15 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 22:58:02 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 20:19:33 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 21:47:28 01/21/19)
(quoted from post at 14:33:51 01/21/19) I said nothing about wanting to kill tractor talk!
Click to expand...

That wasn't aimed at you. That's for the purest who want nothing but tractor talk.

So lets see, YT has just about most tractors covered by name and "lesser known classics" Plus one for garden tractors. So if we kept it pure tractor talk like some want you would have to bar any brand specific questions like "what oil do I use in the AC CA". That would have to go to the AC board. Or the "here's one for you" meant for someone who likes a particular brand. That would have to go under that brand, I.E. Oliver and rrlund. You would only get generic tractor questions and answer. Like how big a tractor do I need to pull this size implement. No mentions of brands. No prayer request either. No questions about a car or truck, crops ect. Only stuff about tractors with no mention of a brand.

Now go and see how many tractor posts there are that don't mention a brand? If they did that here you might as well check "tractor talk" once every 6 months or so.

Rick
Click to expand...

Sorry but you're missing the point, or at least my point. Any and all conversations about tractors and any other equipment is fine regardless of make.

It's topics like these---"Take a Poll On Original TV Series Westerns, Single Lambs, Sign The Get Well Card, Up Early, etc. that should go in the Off Topic Forum instead of Tractor Talk.

Yes, I know people like to talk about other things, you know, things that are "Off Topic" hence, the "Off Topic" forum is created. I just think it makes message boards seem much more organized.

Anyway, no point in saying anymore, I doubt anything will change.
Click to expand...

GOSH, Clarence, what's stopping you from starting your own highly moderated and CORRECT tractor Forum?

Probably would be (NOT) the busiest site on the 'net!

(Or, perhaps so, we won't know 'til you TRY!)

Who died and gave you the right to decide what our gracious hosts should tolerate here?
Click to expand...

Who said I decided what should be done here? I was just pointing out how things could be, how others sites are run, you know, kinda like suggestions?

But you know what? I don't really care what is or isn't implemented here. I just drop in occasionally and actually post very little and by the time I see most threads that I can offer any help or information on, they have dropped out of sight on that archaic thing know as "Classic View" so my input on them is rarely seen or replied to as I use "Modern View" exclusively as it is far superior IMO.

One more thing, I see more wrong information about many things being perpetuated on these forums than others. Not that this is the only one though.

So really, I guess I'm pretty much wasting my time here
Click to expand...

OK, tell you what. Go and count how many post today? Now how many were about tractors only (no trucks or implements, remember it's [i:d9eec53df0][b:d9eec53df0]tractor[/b:d9eec53df0][/i:d9eec53df0] talk"? Bet it wasn't many. Cut all the other stuff out and it's will get mighty dead in here cause guys will go to the respective pages and "tractor talk" will die.

Heck you want info on a specific tractor? LOOK THAT BRAND UP. On this page mention a particular tractor and you get people claiming it's either great of a piece of junk. Never seen much in the way of tech info here either. Wanna know about a Ford look at the Ford page or IH go to IH.

Go look at some of the posts. Guy post a "hey, I'm new, just bought a ________" and someone will be right there telling him he messed up and that he should have bought a "_________". Now if he'd of just gone to the brand page he might actually get some good info.

Gee if you hate this so much why are you even here?

Rick
Click to expand...

Like I said, you're not getting what I'm saying. I'm not talking about technical discussions about a particular tractor, I'm talking about posts that have absolutely nothing to do with tractors. I like tractors. Your examples are exactly what should be in Tractor Talk.

I have two old Fergies plus 3 or four lawn tractors, I like tractor related talk. The other stuff that has nothing to do with tractors belongs in off topic. And I don't hate it here, I just think it could be better, that's all.

Anyway, I'm tired of trying to communicate with the equivalent of a stovepipe.
 
(quoted from post at 19:52:17 01/21/19) By now there was plenty of time for the original HVAC contractor to follow-up with the home owner, or for a gas company inspection, or for the home owner to get a second opinion from another HVAC contractor. Any results?
Click to expand...

Yeah, what happened here George?
 
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