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Planter hydraulics

C

caterpillar guy

Well-known Member
How much hydraulics does it take to lift these newer planters, and is it pressure or volume or both? WE need a newer tractor for planting with to lift a newer planter. 8180 white 16 row. I keep thinking that if you can lift it with these older tractors at 2100PSi and 12-15 GPM is it pressure that needs to increase or just the volume to speed it up.
Talked to my local Agco dealer and told I need to have 25or more volume and 2100Psi or more to lift on the go. So which is it? If 12GPM will lift it then I add seed,fertilizer or whatever and now can't would not the problem be pressure more than volume? I would think the volume would just affect lifting speed mostly. Pressure would affect load lifting ability.
What am I missing ?
 
You are missing nothing. GPM is speed of lift, PSI is force of lift. Take weight of loaded planter divided by the number of lift cylinders gets you the force for each cylinder needed to LIFT the machine, then determine the volume needed to move them at the speed you need it to lift at. Also you will need a machine big enough that the tail doesn't wag the dog, for 16 rows I wouldn't go anything smaller that a 150hp class machine (4840, 1370, 2-135/155, etc.). You also need enough hydraulic flow to power the blower for the row units.
 
IanC We were using a 1466 on it last year it worked fine to pull it. Just slow as molasses for lifting and with any thing in the liquid tanks would not lift it. The air fan runs off the PTO pump so no need for hyd for that part.
Looking at Tractor data, to get the volume I would need to go to, at least those you listed or newer for more yet.
 
There are three different main pumps for that tractor 12, 15, and 17 GPM. You could pull the pump out of the side and measure the center plate thickness to get the gear width to see which you have. If you have to replace it they are not that pricey.
 
P.S. not lifting weight is a pressure issue. See what B&W or another dealer would charge to come out and put a flow meter on it and see what is going on.
 
P.P.S. There are also three pilot reliefs listed by the aftermarket supplier I used to use a 2000, a 2300, and a 2500 psi.
 
Lifting is not the issue it?s cooling the oil while you?re running vacuum motors or on the white I believe they use a fan and blow the seed through the tubes. Probably running 2 fans on a 16 row. I run my vac motor on my priority outlet and run lift and markers on outlets 2 and 3. Can?t lift and run markers at the same time but it works.
 
you are correct about pressure compared to flow, as the other reply stated before you go to far hook a flow meter to the remotes and test the flow gpm and pressure, our 1086 got to the point it would barely lift the disc hooked a flow meter to the remotes, to start with it had plenty of gpm but when I started restricting it for pressure the flow dropped way off and didn't have half the pressure it was suppose to, replace the relief cartridge with a 2500# one everything was back above spec, has worked fine since
 
Your correct in that pressure only effects lifting force butttt you need flow with pressure to lift. I have seen a lot of IH tractors lose pressure when you demand flow. The newer tractors operate at 2750 PSI and up the old 2250 PSI standard is not enough anymore. Also when I check older tractors very few of them are even at 2250 PSI anymore. Lots of 1500-1800 PSI when hot and with a flow demand.

The 66 series IH tractors had lots of things that were good about them but the hydraulics was not one of them. The double pump system was designed for operating a cylinder with 8-10 inches of stroke. Now put it on a planter that may need to fill 4-8 cylinders with a demand of 2500 PSI of so and they do not do well.
 
I will agree there needs to be more hydraulic for this job. Just was trying to find out how much I really need to do it. I see most of the tractors from 15-20 years ago would be pretty close for the job. Maybe even only marginal for it. Didn't want to get into the newer electronic models yet. I was thinking in terms of like a Deere 55/60 or maybe a late model 40or 50 series CaseIH, or something in that age range if it would do it.
 
My buddy replaced his 7120 Magnum with a 8420 to run his JD vacuum 16-31. His 8400 was marginal lifting and getting turned without stopping. But if you are ok with stopping. Your IH will work. With a new big pump.
 
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