How Do I Fix THIS Baler Problem?!?

Quick question guys...

Long story short, after myself and the baler's previous owner paid a local dealer almost $3k to go through this machine and make everything right, well - nothing is right!

I went through and retimed it last night, things were WAY off. There were chains with 4-6-8x the "slop" in them, which they're supposed to have.

And while I was going through the machine trying to trip the knotters manually and test things, I discovered two things. First, the twine on the right side of the machine seems to be getting caught up in the knotter assembly istelf, see picture.

Also, I think the clearance is off on one of those needles, because as you can see, its getting smashed against something.

How do I fix this?!? Thanks.

Pics:

http://imgur.com/a/Ubq2T

http://imgur.com/a/KfbWa

I can automate a billion dollar manufacturing facility, but balers and knotters stump me.

Are you going through the setup, by the numbers with the manual right there in your hands?
Get out in the country and find a farmer making square bales. Beg, plead, grovel for his help. And pay him well if he gets you up and running.

Just a thought Lanse, but if you have already spent a lot of dollars at a dealership, unless you think they do not have a competent baler person, I would make them make it right. If they worked on it and it doesn't tie, make them send someone to the field to see what it is doing.

If I spent that much money on something at a dealership, I'd be hollering at them to get out there and make it right, on their dime (unless more parts are required).

Just a thought. Good luck - Bob

I saw your You Tube video, look at Wes Pandy's video on You Tube about baler knotters. If your manual doesn't have a trouble shooting section find one that does even if it's not for your particular machine. When I was a Kid I ended up running most of the hay on my family's small farm as Dad was an OTR truck driver and was often only around on the weekends. The manuals we had for our New Holland Super 66 and then the John Deere 24T that replaced it had a section that was basically if it does "that" you adjust "This" as far as needles there are clearances, our 24 T was off because the needle yolk (the hoop thing on the bottom) was bent, it was replaced but if I had to do it again I would of straightened it. I've heard about bending needles to get proper clearances, that scares the hell out of me because I associate bending needles with braking needles but if they're malleable iron you should be able to bend them, with your background you're probably better qualified to make a decision on that. Until you learn all the in and outs balers are the farm equivalent of black magic. Might also post your questions on the implement forum. The way balers are they should probably put a dedicated Baler board up for baler issues.

The IH dealer used to send me out to fix them and I was never competent. We charged them for my education. I think I had more luck than skill.

Good luck with that idea. They charge to "WORK" on the baler - they don't have a rate for "FIXING". Any additional work will result in more dollars being added to the bill.

I second the response to get a good manual and go through teh steps yourself. It really is not hard, and you need to do that if you're going to be running the baler so when it breaks down the next time you can fix it. It does get easier, and you too can be an expert.

I can't help you because we're in wire country, I could help you if you were having twister problems.

Your dealer and mine must be different. If I spent $3k on baler repair and it wouldn't work, I would be screaming. If there is more required that was missed the first time, I would expect to pay to have them put on. Seems like the farther East you go the less dealer satisfaction you get.

Laugh all you want, but if it is combine or baler/swather, I will have the dealer work on it when required. When I pay for it at todays prices, they had better go to the field and work. And you better believe, that although it doesn't happen very much at all, I have had my local Deere, AGCo, and Case/IH come back and fix things correctly over the years.

I had a fairly new Case/IH swather that I had taken to the dealership to put new guards and sections, along with a couple other repairs. It was close to harvest and we were getting combines ready so I had the dealer do it. The bill was over $1000.00 for the work. I picked it up one evening and headed to the field. Went about 40 feet in the field and the complete drive fell off. I promise you, Case/IH fixed that for free when I was done. I don't complain about what the bill is, but I expect it to be right when done.

I'll admit that I have used these dealerships for years, and spent a lot of money there, but listening to the horror stories from some of these guys is enough to scare you to death. I'm in Central KS. Maybe the dealers need the business more or something. But if poor workmanship is allowed, that is all you are going to get.

Lanse, make the dealer come to a field with hay in it. Just went through the same thing. They should be able to see what it is or isn't doing and fix it on the spot. If knot, money should be returned and different dealer can work on it. Check with another dealer and see if they have a dedicated baler person. Know of 3-4 shops within 70 miles of me with baler mechanics only. They all make field calls if needed.

What's the make and model of the baler?

Re needle clearance: The needles are supposed to barely touch the knotter at the upper end of the knotting cycle. Look for a video on the subject. One adjustment on the needles involves slightly loosening the needles where they mount on the needle yoke, then move to clearance listed in manual.

Knotter adjustments go better if there is a small amount of hay in the chamber. They also work better if operated at rated speed, 540 RPM. Keep a safe distance when working on it when running.

Good luck

KEH

The guy that devised knotters must have been some sort of a genius. Use a old JD grain binder. Still works almost perfectly. Donno how old it is, but have to estimate at least 70 years old. Modern day baler knotters are little different, with the possible addition of tucker fingers. It is all about timing, and having parts in proper adjustment. Twine presented exactly at the right time and place, and handled properly and presto. Manuals and videos are good start. I have a number years of experience, and consider myself a complete novice. A good baler mechanic is worth his weight in gold. I don't have one. He retired a couple years ago on his late 70's.

almost makes you want to go back to the welding business dosen''t it GGG

I concur with those that say the repair facility that worked on it should make it right. Only problem is, you already re-timed it. The repair facility is no longer obligated to fix it. Whether it is true or not, they would argue that your fiddling caused the problems. If you noticed something obviously wrong, you shouldn't have touched it, but taken the machine right back,or at least called them. Sorry, but I think you just blew $3000.

I had knotter issues on an MF, turned out knotters were fine, one needle was bent and the eye was wore. Put another needle off another machine on and lined it up, works near perfect now.

You may be able to adjust the needed on the carriage, works on MF anyways. Turn machine over by hand and compare both sides to see differences.

Only problem with letting that dealer look at it again is, they've already had it TWICE, and it's come back each time more effed up than the last time. How many times would you let a dealer like that work on your baler?

The twine wrapping on the right knotter has to be covered by the troubleshooting in the manual.

As for the needle hitting, I would clear the chamber and manually swing the needle through its range of motion to see where it's hitting, and make the proper adjustment.

I think fixing balers is about 90% experience and 10% voodoo. We were pretty much novices when it came to balers so our neighbor fixed or adjusted the knotters on our NH baler when it needed it, which wasn't too often. I was always amazed that something so complicated could work well so consistently over many years. Good luck Lanse!

Local John Deere dealer (CTI) charges to work on equipment - they have no rate to FIX equipment. And yes they are driving off customers in droves.

47fivewindow, Boy, isn't that the truth. Start working at a dealer and NOW you are it. I fully intended to be a tractor mechanic and never touched a baler except throw the bales on wagon or in hay mow. Went out with the boss man and right there I decided that I had better learn something about these machines as his ideas were not getting the job done. Later years I had a pretty good reputation on the dad gum things. No one else that he ever hired was expected to know how to make them tie I guess. I even went out on one after I retired but I could charge what ever I felt was fair for work I did. When working for dealer, an hours work is charged up at shop rate pretty much regardless of results. Having a mad farmer looking over your shoulder will surely make you too busy working on tractors to take on a baler job next time around. I always had tractors to work on.

The old Amish Man that I ran around to auctions with was a expert on NH Balers. He bought a new 76 NH and never hired a man to work on it. It was still going a few years ago just before he died and he sold it in his auction. I'll bet it still works. Loren was a expert on Balers also.

If you're going to be in the baling business you better get and read the manual for that baler. Chasing a dealer to come fix a knotter problem when there's a black cloud on the horizon isn't going to get you anything but wet hay.

So...

Needle strike is actually spec. I forget now which side it's supposed to strike on but it needs to hold something like 5 pounds side tension on the needle. I would check the book... but I think what you see there is normal.

The twine wrapped around the knotter frame suggests to me that the twine is not cut. If the twine is not cut, my first go to is the twine knife on the stripper arm. Remove the bolt that holds the knotter frame in place at the rear and flip the knotter up. From there you can see how to remove the knife on that particular baler. Either the knife will come off the stripper arm or you remove the stripper. Take it and file the knives until it will easily cut the twine you're using with minimum pressure. That will probably solve your problem. If it doesn't, then post back with whatever new ailment it has. To test... I just empty the baler, run it at idle... and very carefully and with appropriate timing... grab the strings, pull them out and while holding tension on both, trip the knotter. If it will tie in the yard it will generally tie in the field provided the hay dogs are working properly.

Rod