Opinion needed on cattle

Right now I am raising 8 Holstein steers and sell to family and friends. It is going pretty good and am coming out ahead on the deal. I also raise hay and sell mostly to horse people. I like making hay but don't like selling it. Too many last minute calls and unheld promises. I have about 10 acres of hay along with 8-10 acres of timber and pasture that is not worth mowing for hay because the grass is in a long narrow strip and tough to get equipment to.

Currently I get the weaned steers in the beginning of April and sell them at the end of March with an average weight of about 1100 (last year had one at 1375). I was thinking of getting 3 heifers (any beef breed but prefer Herfords) and trying to integrate their calves in with the Holsteins to finish out at the same time. What would you think the appropriate time to calve would be? I would move the beef steers in with the Holsteins when the beefers wean. The reason for the beef momma cows is to have a place to go with the hay myself and eliminate (or nearly) the need to sell my extra hay.

Is this idea worth it or am I just trying to be a bigshot on a little patch?

Could you sell 3 or 4 more steers that way? Think you would be a lot better that way than going with a couple of cows.

Yes, I could sell 3-4 more steers. The main objective to this would be to have a use for my own hay and still supplement my steer operation a little.

I will second just adding more steers. That is if your not wanting to have cows. On your size of operation the cows will cost you more in that the care needed is only spread across a few head. An example would be getting them breed. Your looking a needing access to a bull or AI them. Neither would be cheap on 3-4 head. You also easily could not as many calves as you have cows. Multiple reasons: trouble breeding, calving troubles, sick young calves, etc. So your overhead cost per calf would be higher. Buying steers insures that you have a calf to try to finish.

Calving 3 or 20 cows still takes additional skills and risks that you currently do not have. Weaned steers are easier to deal with. Feed them twice each day and look them over is about it. When calving your on more of a 24x7 call type of deal.

I don't mean to sound negative, but don't forget to factor in a certain percentage left open (or all of them due to a bad bull), calves that don't make it, bottle calves, being up all night helping a heifer on a work night, etc. Again, I.don't want to.sound negative but these are real issues that might make selling hay look better.

Dont know where your located but if you have a good sale barn near you feeding cull cows may work
out for you, buy culls and hold on feed and hay for 60-90 days, raise them 2 body scores or better
and re-sell, about 20% will turn out to be bred, sell as bred cows or calve out. This has been an
increasingly large part of my operation for several years, I turn over the cow lot a minimum of 4
times per year and always keep back any good young cows that are bred but just in poor condition.
It is pretty low risk as long as you buy cattle back on the same market you sell on, less chance
for wild price fluctuations to up-end your program. In reality, the slaughter cow market is one of
the most stable sectors of the beef trade, those hamburger joints on every street corner in America
need plenty of product.

Just add enough steers to use the hay.

What would you think the appropriate time to calve would be?

Depends on where you are. In Mid Michigan,it's futile to even try to calve before the third week of April. Any sooner than that,the mud and cold are a death sentence.

Dividing your operation into both cow-calf and feeder calves will require extra fencing, management and labor compared to going 100 percent into one or the other. Are you thinking of trying both for just a few years to see which works best for you?

Beef breeds will have better feed efficiency than dairy breeds. When beef feeder calf prices drop you might consider switching to beef calves and adding even more extra animals. If you have low hay yields you can cull your herd size in the Fall to match your Winter feed supply.

you"ll have to pencil it out for yourself to see if the enterprise will do better than break even. As far as when to calve, realize that the cows have a 9-1/3 month gestation period , about like a human. Secondly, feed is the biggest expense in a cow calf operation. thirdly the most important periods of time , nutritionally for cattle, is the last trimester of pregnancy and the post partum period. They need adequate high quality forage for those 2 three month periods. you cannot starve a profit out of a cow. You want strong calves at birth and the cow to re-breed back so as to have a another calf the following year.
In our part of the country (Western Montana), we have good grass by late April and early May. You can rough your cows feed wise in the first trimester of pregnancy. I have mine on fall pasture during the period. I start feeding around thanksgiving, or earlier ids we have had a droughty summer. I feed then with my poorest hay. About mid-January, the cows are in there last trimester and I shift to alfalfa or alfalfa grass and feed pretty heavy since this is generally our coldest period. We start calving in late late March and April (reduced risk of bad weather at calving time) , so I have to feed my best feed from mid-January until about mid-April(~3 months), By May the cows are on green grass and I stop feeding. So I have to feed the best quality hay for only three months. I wean at 7 months (November) and our steers average 750 pounds and the heifers about 725 pounds with nothing but grass.

My neighbors start calving as early as December and through February. Not only do they have to feed top quality feed for the last trimester but they have to feed for another 3-4 months until green grass. Much more expensive. Yes their calves can go to market earlier, but their weights aren"t any different and their feed costs are higher and they risk severe weather at calving time.

In a cow calf operation you have to match your herd to the environment in which they will live. In the wild, most ruminants calve when feed is most plentiful and the most nutritious. That"s what I try to do and this works for me. I will point out that our calves never see grain until they leave our ranch. We do not creep feed. Their diet is 100% forage.

You will have to think this through for yourself and come up with the most economic way to manage your herd. I"" say it again; YOU CANNOT STARVE A PROFIT OUT OF A COW! You want healthy mother cows, strong calves at birth, cows that rebreed in the post partum interval, and raise good healthy calves. feeding right is the key and cheapest way to makes sure the cows and calves strong immune systems keep them healthy.

Good luck in your endeavor.

Beef should be butchered at about 1200 lbs. I have always said dairy steers should be
butchered heavier than that due to heavier frame, and less flesh on the frame. Your heavy
side at 1375 would probly be about right. I don't know if you would want to try to raise
beef and dairy beef together in sinc. It would be merely a guessing game as to what size of
each when putting them together. I don't think the holstiens being heavier would be a
problem, but how much heavier when put with the others so they are done at the same time
would be kind of hard to guess.
Having just 3 cows around creates other problems. They will have to be kept separate all
the time because you won't want to feed them the same as the feeder calves. Then there is
the breeding problem. They will need bred once a year, and you will need a bull for that.
Its really hard to rent a bull this day and age, and owning one for just 3 cows is pretty
much not justifiable. And even if you do own your own bull, its also going to have to be
kept separate a minimum of 3 months out of the year. If you don't, your cows will get bred
back before they are suppose to be.
So, you might want to re-think this. Might not be worth the extra headaches.

Over the years, Dad and I investigated this same question of our own. Each time we decided to continue to buy heifer calves and fatten them up rather than cow/calf. I have slowly expanded from 8-12 to 22-24 head each year. We just don't have the facilities for calving I would like (yes, they will calve just fine in the wild, sometimes), the cost of keeping the cows and bull, plus castration, shots, etc. I rarely break even, and never cover my time baling hay and growing corn, but there a a huge pile of free fertilizer to spread every year!!!

Thanks everyone. You guys brought up many points that I was hanging up on and some I hadn't thought through. I guess I wanted momma cows bad enough that I was trying to down play some of the negatives.

Guess my conclusion is going to be get more ground so I can make it worth my time to do cow/calf as a separate operation (doubtful) or find something else.