Sucks to be me 2

Good news I got the oilpan off and went thru all the rods and found the culprit. Whatever happened the bearing on #6 started to gall. It looked lubed. Main bearing is in correct. Soon as I got the upper part of the rod bearing loose of the journal oil poured out of the oil passage from the main so it had lube at least up to the rod.

The best news is the crank doesn't appear damaged. No grooves or other damage. I just don't see why it went bad.

Unless someone has a better idea, the plan is to mic it out again. Polish the journal. And reassemble with a new bearing. I will also new all new rod bolts and gaskets.


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Make sure the oil hole is in the correct place. I found one was not drill right years ago. Also use plasta-gauge on the rod/main bearing. I have had bearing be miss boxed or marked. So you could have a under size bearing on a standard crankshaft. So the clearance would be too tight.

IF that all checks out you could just have had bad luck. Maybe a small piece of crude in the oil port too???
 
Could be possible that rod bearing was the wrong size making it to tight. Is the crank standard/standard or is it undersized. And did you plastic gauge any of the bearings before final install
 
Also OneFarmer i would emery cloth that rod journal really good. From the looks of that bearing i wouldnt think the journal looks that great. blow out the oil galley too just in case theirs any of that bearing material in there
 
boy you're lucky on the crank, all that metal pulled from the bearing could've really wrecked the crank
 
Looks like lack of clearance, too tight for oil to flow between the bearing and crank.

Typical causes, rod cap on backward or mixed with another rod, bearing miss boxed or made wrong, ID of rod machined too small (if reconditioned), something caught between the bearing and rod (it doesn't take much).

Might want to pull the main cap on the journal that feeds that rod, turn the crank around and poke out the oil hole. There could be pieces of bearing stuck inside.
 
Did you plastigauge them, for what ever reason it looks like it started life too tight, packaging problem maybe.
 
I know you probably did anyway, but since Clevite/Federal Mogul moved to Mexico, I have found that I really have to inspect them closely now. Never had that problem when they were USA made.I have had at least 3 sets of bearings I either had to send back due to imperfections, or modify myself. The last set I sent back had hollow pockets under the face or overlay of the bearing. Just this last set I got for a D282 had a piece of "slag" or bearing material in the oil groove of the bearing, and had the top bearing overlay coated right over it. It didn't take much digging to pop it loose from the bearing, but if I hadn't, it would probably have made quite a mess as it was a pretty good sized flake. And there were 2 bearings like that in the kit I got. Just something that everyone should keep their eyes open for.

Ross
 
Looks like the top and bottom are the same, so you didn't have the bearing mixed up. Other people thought too tight. That's where I am putting my money. Looks like you found the problem anyway. Stan
 
While a mic can be great to measure the journal itself plasti-gauge is your friend when it comes to this clearance. It is cheap and every auto parts store worth a crap should have it. The crushed plasti-gauge doesn't lie.
 
I bought a rebuilt engine once that siezed on startup. One of the rod caps was on backwards! Thankfully the crank was not damaged in that case and a new bearing fixed it.
But you must plastigauge it to check the clearance. It certainly looks like it was too tight to get sufficient oil around the bearing to lubricate it.
All the best with it, look forward to hearing that it is working ok.
Rx
 
You should be able to wiggle each rod after all done and see how it feels, each one should feel the same.

I still think there is something more after the last catastrophic failure.
 
If there's any aluminum bearing material stuck to the crank the best way to remove it is with muriatic acid, stuff HATES aluminum. Just don't breath the fumes. I've done several Kohler small engine cranks with acid and the crank rod journal always looks fine. Make sure the finished journal when clean is well oiled as it will rust fast after the acid treatment. I use a small paint brush to apply the acid.
 
This is the same journal that the bolt came out of. I was very concerned so mic'd the journal and it was still perfectly round and at a like new std size. Got a replacement rod out of concern the cap might be sprung, it was in good shape still nicely oiled and clean. I checked it for size using telescoping gauge and mic. Checked the same as the others. On assembly it plastic-gauged as having between .002-.0025 clearance.
 
I agree, there is more to this.

I think if you do the same thing again you will have same result.
 
I had a John Deere mechanic tell me one time, to make sure not to get any o-ring soap on the journal,as that would cause that symptom if not completely cleaned.
 
Gosh, glad to hear what sounds better than could be. Here's a problem that I see. Oil made it to the rod journal but spun a bearing. Before you go ANY further, the missing metal from at least that bearing went somewhere. It's going to end up somewhere. It could be in the screen of the oil pump pickup. It could end up in some other journal, whether it be the cam or another rod journal. Job one, what caused it so that there isn't a repeat? Job two, preventing a repeat and co$ting your$self a whole lot more money and aggravation. You know what needs to be done. How do I know that you know what needs to be done which AT LEAST involves pulling the rod and main caps if you do an inside the frame and dropping the crank? Number one, you mentioned in your original post that the oil pressure was fine until it happened. You KNEW when you posted that, it was an oil problem. You knew it and your pictures of the spun bearing(s) show it. The pictures...show it. That metal is somewhere, and if you're not careful, it will cause AT LEAST as much damage the next time, and when it does, it WILL make you very mad and lower what's in your bank account. You HAVE to prove and clear ALL oil passages for debris in the block, ALL of them. That really requires hot tanking the block, but I would guess that if you have ambition, you could force (flush) thinner oil through the block and head from where the oil pump forces oil through the engine, and hope that you got or get it all. Truth be told, split it, dismantle it, have a machine shop hot tank it. Something caused those rod bearings to fail, blocked the flow of oil...or a cap wasn't properly torqued, bearing out of tolerance, wasn't properly pre-lubed during fire up, and now the failure needs to be identified and future failures avoided. You KNOW what you have to do, so...

I told this story once before and it still holds true. I had a friend with a '70' 396 (402/.030 over 396) Chevelle that just rebuilt it. He needed a new cam and stopped over. No problem, I had several depending on whether he needed solid or hydraulic, and what his desired lift and duration were. He told me. I went to the shelve and handed him the Crane box, brand new cam and bearings for '68 and older without thinking about it. '68 and prior the rear journal had a huge groove in it for oiling, but to restrict oil pressure loss, the cam bearing had a smaller 3/16" hole. In '69 and later the rear journal on the cam did NOT have such a groove, and to make up for that the hole in the cam bearing was huge to allow the necessary needed increased oil flow to that journal. One could use the older cam with the newer bearing IF one soldered the larger hole in the newer bearing completely shut and then and redrilled (machined) a new hole at 3/16" to restrict the oil flow from the oil pump so as not to lose oil pressure. I KNEW THAT when I handed him that brand new cam, but didn't think about it when I did. He put the cam in, fired it up, it ran a minute or few, and spun EVERY bearing in it. A few days later he mentioned it to me, all depressed and such. I thought about it and realized exactly what happened. He was my friend, he came to me for a cam one night, I GAVE it to him, and the rest is history. To this day I'm still sick about what I did to that engine whe I remember what I did. You just reminded me again. IF one is to reuse the block and heads, one MUST take them apart and have them hot tanked. MUST. That stray metal is in those passages. It IS.

There ARE no short cuts. You KNOW what needs to be done. You knew it the other night in your original post. You KNOW what you need to do. You either do it, or you don't.

Good luck.

Mark
 
(quoted from post at 21:31:37 03/24/16) Gosh, glad to hear what sounds better than could be. Here's a problem that I see. Oil made it to the rod journal but spun a bearing. Before you go ANY further, the missing metal from at least that bearing went somewhere. It's going to end up somewhere. It could be in the screen of the oil pump pickup. It could end up in some other journal, whether it be the cam or another rod journal. Job one, what caused it so that there isn't a repeat? Job two, preventing a repeat and co$ting your$self a whole lot more money and aggravation. You know what needs to be done. How do I know that you know what needs to be done which AT LEAST involves pulling the rod and main caps if you do an inside the frame and dropping the crank? Number one, you mentioned in your original post that the oil pressure was fine until it happened. You KNEW when you posted that, it was an oil problem. You knew it and your pictures of the spun bearing(s) show it. The pictures...show it. That metal is somewhere, and if you're not careful, it will cause AT LEAST as much damage the next time, and when it does, it WILL make you very mad and lower what's in your bank account. You HAVE to prove and clear ALL oil passages for debris in the block, ALL of them. That really requires hot tanking the block, but I would guess that if you have ambition, you could force (flush) thinner oil through the block and head from where the oil pump forces oil through the engine, and hope that you got or get it all. Truth be told, split it, dismantle it, have a machine shop hot tank it. Something caused those rod bearings to fail, blocked the flow of oil...or a cap wasn't properly torqued, bearing out of tolerance, wasn't properly pre-lubed during fire up, and now the failure needs to be identified and future failures avoided. You KNOW what you have to do, so...

I told this story once before and it still holds true. I had a friend with a '70' 396 (402/.030 over 396) Chevelle that just rebuilt it. He needed a new cam and stopped over. No problem, I had several depending on whether he needed solid or hydraulic, and what his desired lift and duration were. He told me. I went to the shelve and handed him the Crane box, brand new cam and bearings for '68 and older without thinking about it. '68 and prior the rear journal had a huge groove in it for oiling, but to restrict oil pressure loss, the cam bearing had a smaller 3/16" hole. In '69 and later the rear journal on the cam did NOT have such a groove, and to make up for that the hole in the cam bearing was huge to allow the necessary needed increased oil flow to that journal. One could use the older cam with the newer bearing IF one soldered the larger hole in the newer bearing completely shut and then and redrilled (machined) a new hole at 3/16" to restrict the oil flow from the oil pump so as not to lose oil pressure. I KNEW THAT when I handed him that brand new cam, but didn't think about it when I did. He put the cam in, fired it up, it ran a minute or few, and spun EVERY bearing in it. A few days later he mentioned it to me, all depressed and such. I thought about it and realized exactly what happened. He was my friend, he came to me for a cam one night, I GAVE it to him, and the rest is history. To this day I'm still sick about what I did to that engine whe I remember what I did. You just reminded me again. IF one is to reuse the block and heads, one MUST take them apart and have them hot tanked. MUST. That stray metal is in those passages. It IS.

There ARE no short cuts. You KNOW what needs to be done. You knew it the other night in your original post. You KNOW what you need to do. You either do it, or you don't.

Good luck.

Mark


Mark, I'm not sure, that you are sure that metal is still in there. Are you real sure you are sure???? Kidding alert on!!

Gene
 
I would agree, do out of frame, disassemble, have crank tested, boil and reassemble.

You have already paid for the parts and have a usable block, why take a chance on ruining it all.
 
Guess I should roll the upper main out and check that hole. I'm already planning on running a brush up thru the oil passage to rod journal. Crud I missed in assembling or in that passage is the only thing I can think of to cause this. The bearing "says" it's a std and the part number matches. Could be a mismarked .001 under I suppose. The engine spun freely cranking it over though and I plastic-gauged it

I primed the oil system by pouring oil in the turbo oil port on the oil filter casting. Then I cranked it till it got oil pressure. And then some more to bleed the injector lines. It was getting oil up to the rocker shaft before I started it.
 

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