JD Tier 4 Engines

I was told by JD, the Tier 4 engines in their 45-75 hp. range, are guided by an onboard computer, and every so many hours, the engine has to heat up to 1200 degrees to burn off particles in the diesel particulate filter (DPF). Sounds hot, and I'm thinking it could be a fire hazard in the right conditions. Just curious if anyone has any experience with these new EPA engines and how they perform? I'm also told if the computer malfunctions, the engine shuts down and has to be reprogrammed in order to start. If the filter gets ruined that is about a $1,500 replacement. Maybe it's time for a gasoline or natural gas burning tractor. Your thoughts?

I have a 5085 JD, about every 45 hrs. the light comes on you can smell something getting warm, the temp gauge stays the same, and in 30 min the light goes out and everything is fine.

Most (not all) interim Tier IV and final Tier IV engines (not just JD) that do not use DEF use a diesel particulate filter that must be regenerated routinely. Yes, such functions are computer controlled, and, yes, they do get very hot and can be a fire hazard.

When it is time for replacement, you will not touch one for $1,500.

Thanks feds.

Dean

I worked on trucks with this system,and it is the exhaust that gets heated by extra fuel being added to the exhaust stream so that it collects on the catylist face in the particulate filter,where it burns off the soot collected on the face,turning it to ash,and collected in another compartment of the particulate filter.This ash must be removed every so often.Depending on how the engine is run determines how much ash is collected.Low speed/light load causes more soot/more frequent need for regens.On trucks there is a hot exhaust light that comes on when the system is doing an automatic regen.Sometimes another light comes on telling you to do a manual regen.On a truck this requires you to pull over in a safe location,set the brakes,and do a manual regen which requires 35- 45 minutes.If you have to do frequent manual regens,the automatic system is not working properly,and needs to be checked by a shop with diagnostic equipment.You cannot ignore the regen needed light because the ECM will derate the engine;keep ignoring it and shut down!!On trucks,our greatest problem was with light load/stop and go operations.Oh,and,IF the exhaust gets too hot it will shut down too!As you might expect this leads to more sensors,wiring, and tons of fault codes.And with the next system where urea(diesel exhaust fluid)is injected into the exhaust stream there is another muffler type add on.And more components and fault codes.This system does not need regens as often.
But yes the exhaust does get very hot and would need to be kept very clean.You could not do a regen around anything easily flammable such as dry hay.All operators of such equipment would need to be schooled on what to do/how it works,and don't ignore the warning lights.
The reason for the these exhaust systems is first to remove soot from our air,and second,to remove nitris oxides from our air.It ain't perfect but it's the best they can come up with for now. Mark

Two of the fuels the feds under the current administration would like to get rid of, are coal and diesel - oh yeah, and firewood. They can't control the price of the fuel, but they can make the use of it so expensive as to make you use something else
Pete

My truck has regenerated once in 32 months and 360,000 miles, but then I rarely idle. The only time it did regen was on an overnight idle in winter with temps below zero. If you run the engine hard enough they will stay clean on their own, it's idling and light loads that causes regenerations. The exhaust does get very hot during a regen and so it shouldn't be near combustibles.

I heard those filters could also be as high as $4-$5,000, but can last up to 4-5,000 hrs., if you don't idle the engine much.

I bet it regenerated more than that but most were while driving and didn't even realize it. We have to stationary regenerate garbage trucks pretty often due to not enough steady road time to regenerate while driving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_emission_standards

https://www.deere.com/en_US/services_and_support/engine-information/emissions-information/emissions-info.page

I think between this and the post about the dealer not having what you want,it sounds like you have the same mind set that I have about those tractors anymore. It's freeing,and life's a lot less aggravating when you stop following the crowd and just say goodbye to the yellow wheels and their dealers.

Have a shop hook up to your ECM and read the regen count-you will be surprised how many it does when you are driving and are unaware,probably once every ten hours.It will tell the the percentage the catylist face is plugged before and after,the exact time when,what the temps were in the dpf,and more info i can't remember.Mark

I have to wonder about all this computer stuff, wires, sensors, etc., on a tractor that works in rough terrain and conditions, how long before electrical things quit working as they should. Once that tractor is off warranty, it's going to be big bucks to get it fixed.

I guess I am too out of the new tech to understand why you dump more diesel fuel into some thing to clean out the soot from burning diesel. Or putting water and 32% nitrogen into a diesel. Isn't that for growing corn? Or why diesel fuel is more expensive than gas that takes more refining?

If they did not kill off all the perpetual motion inventions and people that invent them, we wouldn't have to worry about tier 4 or what ever.

(quoted from post at 20:16:50 08/24/15) I have to wonder about all this computer stuff, wires, sensors, etc., on a tractor that works in rough terrain and conditions, how long before electrical things quit working as they should. Once that tractor is off warranty, it's going to be big bucks to get it fixed.

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About the same as cars,trucks, highway tractors and industrial equipment with wiring harnesses to everything.
I see fewer vehicles that fail to start or leave travels stranded than 30-40 years ago.
A diesel is designed to operate best at full rated rpms and at full rated power. Anything else reduces fuel efficiency and increases re-gens.
For start, stop, start, stop, lightly loaded, idling and putzing around . The spark ignition engine has advantages over the Tier IV diesel.

Mine says on the dash when it regens and it has never done it while driving. It moniters a percentage, of what I don't know, but It warns of an oncoming regen. But if I'm driving that % drops down. Then if I idle the % rises again.

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I have two Kubota tractors with tier 4 engines. One is a field tractor ,gets hot while being used, so rarely has to do a reburn. And if it does a reburn while you are baling or some thing like that , you don't notice and power loss , and no need to stop. The other tractor is our yard tractor. Does not get to run hard enough to get "hot" most days, and needs to reburn more often. While doing a reburn , the RPMS must be at 1600 or more. Bit fast for loader work. If one of these two tractors gives me trouble in the future, I think it will be the yard tractor. Cause it doesn't get to run up to operating temp.

I see by the dash that is a Volvo,and you are low on DEF fluid.Do you have a Volvo engine or a Cummins?I am more familiar with Cummins,and their Insite diagnostics.In the diagnostics it records all the regen events,and typically they were about every 10 hrs.You just don't know it happened because it is automaticly done by the ecm. Your bar graph is showing the amount of soot collected on the catylist face in the dpf,and by your account it is working properly.
With def fluid,the engine is set up to produce less soot,but makes more nitris oxides which is what the injecting the def fluid converts to water and oxygen if I recall correctly.Mark

Bruce so far so good .. Have about thirty of the smaller Ls out. Thing is let them do their thing when they need to. I am still like you in that the smaller units may be prone to trouble quicker but so far has not been the case.

In the future I believe there will be more CNG-compressed natural gas engines in trucks.There just needs to the refueling infrastructure.Mark

So you have put 350 thousand on it in how long. Can,t remember when you went over and got it. It is Volvo not cummins is it not

It's a total Volvo truck. I got it on Jan 18th of 2013.

It can't regen while driving because the rpm's are too low, a light just comes on telling you to stop for a regen. If you don't stop it will go into a de-rate and limit you to 5 mph til you stop and regen. I've never had the light come on warning of a regen soon, or had it de-rate on me for that. I have run out of def and had it go to de-rate tho.

That much fluid will last one more day, I'll top it off when I get fuel tomorrow. It takes about $45.00 worth/week in this truck.This truck will not run a regen while driving because the rpm's are too low.

We were told by our JD techs who were told by JD themselves to not let the engine idle. Half minute warm up and half minute cool down. Yep that's what they told us.

Like to add that we have had over 20 pieces of JD equipment with Tier 4 engines which includes one cummins and we have only been down for a total of 45 minutes once due to the regen not working.

(quoted from post at 17:16:50 08/24/15) I have to wonder about all this computer stuff, wires, sensors, etc., on a tractor that works in rough terrain and conditions, how long before electrical things quit working as they should. Once that tractor is off warranty, it's going to be big bucks to get it fixed.

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You won't see the big trucking companies running any trucks without a warranty.

There is no such thing as perpetual motions machines. So everybody get that foolish idea out of your heads .