37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
I am looking for a new ball hone for honing wheel cylinders. There seams to be a lot of different grits. Anything from 120 to 600 grits. what will be a good grit for wheel cylinders. Thanks Stan
- Thread starter 37chief
- Start date
Rex in Australia
Member
I'll say this and be prepared for the onslaught of all that disaggree with me.
I've seen guys hone the daylights out of wheel cylinders in order to make them all nice inside. But I believe the results of that is 1 - an oversize bore, and 2 - a rough surface that is harder on the new rubber seals than the old polished worn finish. If they are not really pitted with rust, and that is often in the centre and between the smoother areas where the seals run. I'm a believer of cleaning them up, removing all rust particles and bits of old rubber seals. And then - cleaning them up with fine wet and dry sandpaper so to leave a smooth surface for the new seals.
OK, chime in and tell me I'm wrong. But I've been a qualified mechanic since the 70's and rebuilt many brake and clutch master and slave cylinders.
Rx
I've seen guys hone the daylights out of wheel cylinders in order to make them all nice inside. But I believe the results of that is 1 - an oversize bore, and 2 - a rough surface that is harder on the new rubber seals than the old polished worn finish. If they are not really pitted with rust, and that is often in the centre and between the smoother areas where the seals run. I'm a believer of cleaning them up, removing all rust particles and bits of old rubber seals. And then - cleaning them up with fine wet and dry sandpaper so to leave a smooth surface for the new seals.
OK, chime in and tell me I'm wrong. But I've been a qualified mechanic since the 70's and rebuilt many brake and clutch master and slave cylinders.
Rx
1. A "ball hone" (AKA "rabbit turd hone") is good for ONE thing... to make a bore "look good"/free of pits. That doesn't mean the resulting uneven finish will be much good for sealing.
2. I didn't realize they even made something in the brake hone realm of things as coarse as 150 grit, but that ain't what'cha want.
3. Unless you are dealing with something REALLY rare, simply get a new cylinder. Take the price of a kit plus your time, plus it will probably still LEAK, and a new one will look like a GOOD deal!
2. I didn't realize they even made something in the brake hone realm of things as coarse as 150 grit, but that ain't what'cha want.
3. Unless you are dealing with something REALLY rare, simply get a new cylinder. Take the price of a kit plus your time, plus it will probably still LEAK, and a new one will look like a GOOD deal!
In cases where a new cylinder is available, I've got to agree with Bob, a new one is usually more economic in the long run than trying to rebuild an old one.
In those cases where a new cylinder isn't available, a dingleberry/ball hone isn't what you want to use to clean up the bore. Given that they have no real amount of pressure on the cutting surface, and that the cutting surfaces are flexible, there is no way they can be relied on to true the bore back to round. Not that the bore will be out of round, per-se, but a three legged hone that will se;f center, and insure a true, round, bore is what you need.
They make a small,three legged hone,(just like the larger ones) made to do just what your talking about, and they are often sold as 'brake cylinder hones'. In fact I bought one the other day to clean up the bore in a small diameter gear. They are usually sold with a medium grit stone. I have no clue what grit it is, but the medium should be sufficient to do a brake cylinder with no problems. I say this because I've done several brake cylinder, and master cylinder bores over the years, and have never had a problem with any leakage, etc when the were put back into use.
In those cases where a new cylinder isn't available, a dingleberry/ball hone isn't what you want to use to clean up the bore. Given that they have no real amount of pressure on the cutting surface, and that the cutting surfaces are flexible, there is no way they can be relied on to true the bore back to round. Not that the bore will be out of round, per-se, but a three legged hone that will se;f center, and insure a true, round, bore is what you need.
They make a small,three legged hone,(just like the larger ones) made to do just what your talking about, and they are often sold as 'brake cylinder hones'. In fact I bought one the other day to clean up the bore in a small diameter gear. They are usually sold with a medium grit stone. I have no clue what grit it is, but the medium should be sufficient to do a brake cylinder with no problems. I say this because I've done several brake cylinder, and master cylinder bores over the years, and have never had a problem with any leakage, etc when the were put back into use.
60 acre hillside
Member
I did them the primitive way with a piece of a broom handle and emery paper back in the days when the cheap brake fluid looked like pure alcohol and sold for $.25 a pint and I just bought the cups at Western Auto. I had no leaks and my friends told me I could use the old cups if I cleaned them good. Those were the good(?) old days. I have not done drum brake work for at least 25 years. The $.25 brake fluid went away 50 years ago.
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
For your situation, I agree with the advice you have gotten here.
A point of interest on the ball hone.
My first exposure to the ball hone was from Homelite, in the 70's, at a service school. Chainsaw cylinders are cast aluminum with a thin metal coating. If a used cylinder appears re-usable, and you want to clean it up a little, a LITTLE is key. The slight pressure of just the right size ball hone works great.
A point of interest on the ball hone.
My first exposure to the ball hone was from Homelite, in the 70's, at a service school. Chainsaw cylinders are cast aluminum with a thin metal coating. If a used cylinder appears re-usable, and you want to clean it up a little, a LITTLE is key. The slight pressure of just the right size ball hone works great.
37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
The cylinders are not what I would call rare, they are available. I am doing the brakes on my 52 plymouth. fronts have two cylinders each side rears have one. I have rebuilt wheel cylinders in the past with good success. I just thought I could go to ebay and buy a new hone. Then I found so many different grits which is confusing. I thought someone may know the correct grit. When I did the brakes on my 63 F 100 I did buy new cylinders, they were very cheap. I didn't have this problem with wheel cylinders, on my 34 Chevy with mechanical brakes, the only problem was stopping. Stan
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
I repaired a wheel cylinder on the old IH pickup a couple of years ago using my crude and home built "brake cyl. hone". Just a piece of emery cloth attached to a straight piece of stiff wire. inserted in the electric drill and run it for a while through the cylinder. Not saying its the best way but the cylinder stopped leaking and the truck has working brakes. I don't know if I'd use that method on a vehicle that is driven in traffic but for around the farm use I'd do it again.
dr sportster
Well-known Member
A three stone spring loaded brake hone is usually 220 grit. Plus .003" is the max before you need to just replace the cylinder.
On old equipment, I've taken a piece of metal coat hanger wire, made a tight loop in the end, threaded a piece of emery cloth into the loop, and chucked the other end of the wire into the drill.
NO, it ain't the "recommended" way. But it WILL get you by, unless the cylinder is too pitted to begin with.
For those irreplaceable cylinders, there are outfits that do stainless steel liners. Google "stainless steel" + "brake cylinder sleeve" and see what comes up.
NO, it ain't the "recommended" way. But it WILL get you by, unless the cylinder is too pitted to begin with.
For those irreplaceable cylinders, there are outfits that do stainless steel liners. Google "stainless steel" + "brake cylinder sleeve" and see what comes up.
Two cylinders on each wheel. What a unique idea. Lots of folks make fun of Chrysler products but, they were one of the first to introduce the TOTAL CONTACT shoe style brakes on cars using the two cylinders mentioned. Speaking of mechanical brakes, our old 31 Plymouth had hydraulic brakes and my '37 Ford had mechanical. Sailed across the intersection one time when that pedal was frozen solid from slush. I know, check your brakes before moving the car. A brake cyl doesn't wear out of round and I have no problem using a ball hone, but like you say, so many grits and materials it is hard to decide which one and they are not cheap so you don't want a whole fleet of them for one size.
37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
I have a there stone. I will dig it up and give it a try. I have used my brothers ball hone, and its about worn out. Thought I would get a new one.Thanks for the offer. Stan
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
I see replacement stones offered for the KD hones for wheel cylinders that are 320 and 400 grit. The ball hone was listed at 180.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdbrak08.html
As far as function difference between the 2 types of hones, I see minimal difference. The advantage of the 3 stone hone is "one size fits more", while the ball hones are more limited in the size cylinder each will fit.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdbrak08.html
As far as function difference between the 2 types of hones, I see minimal difference. The advantage of the 3 stone hone is "one size fits more", while the ball hones are more limited in the size cylinder each will fit.
ObsoElitist
Member
Very rare cyls can be bored out and sleeved with brass or stainless. I have done some, but there was a guy in Portola, CA doing nothing but that. In the auto repair trade, no one rebuilds them anymore do to liabilty and cheap chinese new parts.
My 2 cents worth...
Use the a three legged hone that will self center, and insure a true, round, bore is what you need. ( these are made for brake jobs)
Also use a little brake fluid ( keep job wet) while honing at a nice stead med. speed and move the hone in and out slowly wile honing for an even consistent job. check for inside smoothness periodically and don't over do it.
If the lil ridges are gone, you have honed it enough .. STOP !
Clean well and assemble.
PS: the little stones on the hones are cheap and easily replaceable when needed. ( 3 to a pack)
Your welcome
~ Oro
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