Today about $1.87 per thousand cubic feet which translates to just about the cheapest inflation adjusted gas in history and a roughly 85% price decline since 2005. This price is a direct result of a drilling boom set off by technological advances, mainly fracking, that allow economical production of shale gas of which the USA has at least a 100 year supply. The exact same thing is possible with oil production in the lower 48, anyone or any group that claims the US does not have the potential for energy independence is either misinformed or lying. Before November I hope every thinking American takes a little time to investigate why the US is not barreling full steam ahead to become energy independent and supercharge our economy.
- Thread starter LAA
- Start date
The US imports crude oil and exports refined products, this is a good thing if you are a refinery worker or otherwise employed in a downstream field, that is how advanced economies work, take in raw materials, send out value added finished products. If and when the oil supply increases above worldwide demand the price will fall, period, it does not matter where the oil is produced for this to happen. Oil has been cheap most of my life and it will be cheap again.
You forget one thing. That NG isn't being shipped out of the country like oil, gasoline and diesel fuel is. Drill all the oil you want and as long as it's on the world market the price will be high.
If you don't understand that you can read and check facts and find out for yourself.
Star changing over to NG on a larger scale and it'll get the attention of the Arabs. I'm tired of my hard earned money going to them. Get NG set up and I'll sure change over to it. I feel it's my duty as an American to spend my money at home. Not to someone that want's me dead. NG,lets do it.
If you don't understand that you can read and check facts and find out for yourself.
Star changing over to NG on a larger scale and it'll get the attention of the Arabs. I'm tired of my hard earned money going to them. Get NG set up and I'll sure change over to it. I feel it's my duty as an American to spend my money at home. Not to someone that want's me dead. NG,lets do it.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
I think we are barreling full steam ahead, I think we are at an all time high for domestic oil production! North Dakota is real close to being the largest oil producing state. If we produced more we would just export it anyhow, it's a free enterprise system right, that's what the nnalert want, more money for big business! If natural gas was easier to export it wouldn't be so cheap!
It is in the interest of certain politicians to NOT make the USA energy independent.
Just think of the massive uptick in the economic conditions in the USA if construction was going full blast in the Bakken formation, with drilling, trucking, building a pipeline, lower fuel costs, etc. But......that would be silly.
Just think of the massive uptick in the economic conditions in the USA if construction was going full blast in the Bakken formation, with drilling, trucking, building a pipeline, lower fuel costs, etc. But......that would be silly.
Whats wrong with that? I bet you don't sell corn to the low bidder. Capitalism, it works and its not going to change, regulate prices refiners can charge for their product and there will be very little of it at astronomical prices. Point is this, drill more wells, increase supply, price goes down, it happens every time.
If your tired of your money going overseas you better vote for someone who wants to drill in the USA. It is a world market, any significant increase in supply from any source lowers prices. Who do you think we are competing against for the available oil supplies? As I said below, oil has been cheap most of my life and it will be cheap again, either due to increased supply or the recession that will be caused by not increasing the supply.
I agree with LAA on NG should be utilized much more than it is.
I also think that conservation should be the number one concern, much more than additional drilling. This is the first year that average fuel economy broke 24MPG.
The US only has a fraction of the world supply of oil, so any increase in production here is insignificant on the global price of oil.
I also think that conservation should be the number one concern, much more than additional drilling. This is the first year that average fuel economy broke 24MPG.
The US only has a fraction of the world supply of oil, so any increase in production here is insignificant on the global price of oil.
Ha! If you want competition, break the 6 oil companies up in to 75-100 companies and then you'll see the price come down. Drill Baby Drill gets us nowhere when the big 6 are in control. They control the flow and with prices like we have I'm sure they see no need to change a thing. Would you if you had all that cash flowing in?
The US lower 48 has more known oil reserves than Saidi Arabia, the United States geological survey documented this when Theodore Roosevelt was president, 100 years ago, most of it is shale oil and has not been economically feasible to produce until now. I have worked on drilling rigs since 1973 and the US and worldwide proven reserves have increased every year since then due to advances in technology, 3D and 4D seimic, horozontal drilling, reservoir enhancements, etc., roughly 80% of the shallow water drilling worldwide is re-drilling old wells and re-completeing them to with advanced techniques, most times the rejuvenated wells out produce the originals by a large margin.
Steve in VA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Natural Bridge Virginia
I went looking for an independent estimate and found this from the CIA.gov. According to that estimate the US is actually 13th with Saudia Arabia being first. SA = 262,600,000,000 barrels economically recoverable with the USA = 20,680,000,000 barrels. For myself, I'm pro-nuke but in the interest of full disclosure, I work nuc power.
gene bender
Well-known Member
You are forgetting one huge problem we need some new pipelines to get the supply where its needed. Some new electric power plants are wondering if there will be some new lines will be constructed. Just try and build a new pipeline and listen to the cant build it here stuff.
gene bender
Well-known Member
Crude oil and gas are on the board of trade and the supply is good so how can you blame the oil companies do you know who is the largest refiner in North America clue its not your big oil company.
That is a crock! If we produced all out own oil and not buy from our enemies you can rest assure they would lower their price to try to sell. Besides, you send $100.00 overseas for a barrel of oil that $100.00 is gone. You spend $100.00 for a barrel of oil here that $100.00 is still here to be spent and sooner or later I or you are likely to benefit from it unlike if a Arab had it.
Brad Buchanan
Member
LAA I agree that this administration tries its best to block any energy production except pie-in-the-sky boondoggles like Solyndra.
Not to hijack the thread but I am curious about horizontal drilling, when I hear that procedure mentioned I visualize somthing like a speedo cable or pipe snake.
Brad.
Not to hijack the thread but I am curious about horizontal drilling, when I hear that procedure mentioned I visualize somthing like a speedo cable or pipe snake.
Brad.
Pete in MD
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Maryland
Measured in dollars the largest U.S. export category in 2011 was refined petroleum products.
My next truck will run on CNG or CNG/gasoline. GM,Ford and Chrysler now provide new vehicles with factory-rigged engines delivered to your dealer. Where I live I can fuel with CNG at five different locations, all within 10 miles of my home, 24 hrs. per day. You pay $1.75 per GGE. Everyone ought to be screaming for this, but for some reason we're all still hung up on the gasoline paradigm, thinking only of ways to make gasoline cheaper. It ain't gonna happen.
Steve in VA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Natural Bridge Virginia
The difficulty with keeping/using 'our own oil' is that the companies that are drilling and selling are international. A few examples being ExxonMobil "..international oil and gas company...", Chevron "..conduct business worldwide..", and BP "..international oil and gas company...". So my point is the very people drilling oil in the US have no financial reason to keep it in the US when the world will buy it at X$/bbl.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
In the past 70% of the cost to produce nitrogen was natural gas. A few years ago natural gas approached $17 a thousand cubic feet and nitrogen price exploded accordingly. Certainly hasn't come down much. Just shows they will charge what the market will tolerate.
I don't know where you NG promoters live,but a lot of people can't get NG service if they wanted it.Towns Yes,country NO,even if the line goes thru their front yard(property),there are a lot of vacant taps sticking out of the ground that you are not allowed to hook back up to because they were once unhooked from(house fire-new house-etc.LPG-Elec.Fuel oil are their ONLY answer.
The Dukester
Well-known Member
I'm a veteran and am currently getting treatment for a deteriorating hip joint that has apparently resulted from a femur fracture I got while in the Air force and never healed correctly causing a misalignment of the hip joint and the resulting problem with it I'm having now. I feel real compassion for the many, many fellow veterans I see at the Veterans Affairs Hospital where I receive treatment that are obviously in financial need and I am becoming more concerned about their welfare.
Anyway, as I see and hear of the economic problems our country is having and all these comments about how we are seemingly being "hosed" by our own American Oil Companies I sometimes wonder if the efforts of thousands and thousands young Americans through the years to insure the security of our country is truly appreciated by the big money interests in our country.
Times are not especially good right now in our country, many former military service people returning to civilian life are not finding the good jobs that would really benefit them and enable them to lead the most normal lives possible they should have if they are willing to work and seek self worth gain and happiness. The thought that the greed of the people involved in the petroleum industries is a substantial cause of the economic slump our country is currently in makes me wonder if they were/are actually worth fighting for.
Anyway, as I see and hear of the economic problems our country is having and all these comments about how we are seemingly being "hosed" by our own American Oil Companies I sometimes wonder if the efforts of thousands and thousands young Americans through the years to insure the security of our country is truly appreciated by the big money interests in our country.
Times are not especially good right now in our country, many former military service people returning to civilian life are not finding the good jobs that would really benefit them and enable them to lead the most normal lives possible they should have if they are willing to work and seek self worth gain and happiness. The thought that the greed of the people involved in the petroleum industries is a substantial cause of the economic slump our country is currently in makes me wonder if they were/are actually worth fighting for.
We have more oil and natural gas than people realize. They are drilling like I have never seen in my lifetime here in Illinois.
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/feb/18/no-headline---ev_oil_boom/
Several wells were drilled north west of my house, approx 20 miles, that were around 3700 feet deep, and free flowed into the tanks for a month without a pump. The reason the perception was we had no oil, is due to the drilling cost. Oil has to be above $70/ barrel for it to be profitable. America is one of very few countries were the oil companies have to deal with individual mineral rights owners and not the government collectively. In other words they get away without paying large royalties. Typically here in the US they pay a 30% royalty to the mineral rights owners. That money is usually split up in 1/8 ths rights or however it was originally. I have a 0.00223230 interest in a well my grandfather had a 1/8 right to from the 1940s. I SPEND the money, and so do the others. Especially because it doesn't amount to millions but hundreds a year for me.
-Horsepoor
I know a lot of people think Big Oil is selling us out, but guess what, If it isn't them, the foreign companies will just come get it. They already are. They can get leases and permits like anyone else.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/oilindia-chesapeake-idINDEE8320DQ20120403
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/31/cnooc-chesapeake-idUKN3017000120110131
China and India are coming to get it. It doesn't help we owe one of them Trillions of dollars.
-Horsepoor
Steve in VA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Natural Bridge Virginia
God bless you Dukester and those like you that have given so much; sometimes all. I can say that at least at my company we put a high premium on hiring vets. We've got about 15,000 employees and I suspect our percentage of vets is way higher than the norm.
One thing that has changed. 25 years ago, these people were on bicycles.
SHANGHAI - General Motors and its joint ventures in China sold 257,944 vehicles in March and 745,152 vehicles in the first quarter of 2012, setting March and quarterly records.
GM's domestic sales in March were up 10.7 percent from the same month in 2011. They were the second highest for any month in GM's history in China. For the first three months as a whole, its domestic sales increased 8.7 percent, the best quarter since GM began doing business in China.
"GM has maintained our growth in our largest market in 2012, despite an overall industry slowdown," said Kevin Wale, president and managing director of the GM China Group. "Our new models such as the Chevrolet Malibu have gotten off to a solid start, complementing the ongoing strength of established products such as the Buick Excelle, Chevrolet Cruze and Cadillac SRX."
Shanghai GM's domestic sales increased 10.5 percent on an annual basis to 110,038 units. SAIC-GM-Wuling's sales in China increased 11.6 percent year on year to 139,768 units. FAW-GM's domestic sales in March totaled 7,417 units. Sales at all three GM joint ventures were up from the previous month.
Demand for Buick products rose 3.7 percent on an annual basis to a March record 57,082 units. The brand was led by the Excelle, whose sales jumped 25.4 percent to 24,134 units, and the Excelle XT and GT, which had a collective sales increase of 22.7 percent to 14,064 units.
Chevrolet sales in China rose 11.1 percent year on year to a March record 54,716 units. The New Sail was the brand's best-selling model, with demand for the sedan and hatchback rising 55.5 percent to 20,085 units. The Cruze remained a popular model as well, with sales growing 7.7 percent to 18,678 units. Sales of the Malibu totaled 4,289 units in its first full month on the market.
Cadillac continued its strong run in March, as sales increased 35.2 percent on an annual basis to a monthly record of 2,745 units. The SRX accounted for 2,143 of the luxury brand's unit sales.
Wuling sales in China were up 9.9 percent on an annual basis to an all-time monthly record 130,251 units. The Baojun brand had sales of 5,012 units in its first March on the market.
General Motors traces its roots back to 1908. GM has 11 joint ventures, two wholly owned foreign enterprises and more than 35,000 employees in China. GM and its joint ventures offer the broadest lineup of vehicles and brands among automakers in China. Passenger cars and commercial vehicles are sold under the Baojun, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Jiefang, Opel and Wuling brands. In 2011, GM sold more than 2.5 million vehicles in China. It has been the sales leader among global automakers in the market for seven consecutive years. More information on General Motors in China can be found at GM Media Online.
There are more oil rigs drilling now than anytime in history. So, yes you need to remember that in November. external_link is not the problem.
I suggest you read this report on a weekly basis, it explains to you what is really going on in the petroleum markets.
http://205.254.135.7/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/weekly_petroleum_status_report/wpsr.html
It really dont make me any difference what controls the price of fuel. Just wait till there is a lot if things burning natural gas and watch the price go to the sky. Look what has happened to diesel in the last forty years. It was always cheaper than gasoline but look at it now. Back then there wasnt much of anything that burned diesel, not nearly the ratio of diesel to gasoline that is burned today.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
The "100 year supply" is highly speculative, since we don't know what the demand will be in the future, and much of the known reserves will be quite expensive to exploit.
One thing is certain: Unless demand increases dramatically, the current drilling boom will soon collapse. Gas exploration is just not profitable at current prices. I own a share in four wells, two of them were shut down last month because they are no longer profitable, and I expect the other two to soon close. Gas prices are one-third what they were in 2008, and our production is way down as well.
I'm not saying that natural gas isn't going to be a huge source of energy in the near future. But it isn't a panacea for energy independence. That can only be achieved by a combination of solutions, including conservation and renewable energy.
As far as the coming election goes, it sounds like you're pretty happy with the direction things are going, so I can guess who you'll vote for.
Rolling Stone had an interesting article on the current gas boom.
The Fracking Bubble
One thing is certain: Unless demand increases dramatically, the current drilling boom will soon collapse. Gas exploration is just not profitable at current prices. I own a share in four wells, two of them were shut down last month because they are no longer profitable, and I expect the other two to soon close. Gas prices are one-third what they were in 2008, and our production is way down as well.
I'm not saying that natural gas isn't going to be a huge source of energy in the near future. But it isn't a panacea for energy independence. That can only be achieved by a combination of solutions, including conservation and renewable energy.
As far as the coming election goes, it sounds like you're pretty happy with the direction things are going, so I can guess who you'll vote for.
Rolling Stone had an interesting article on the current gas boom.
The Fracking Bubble
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
Thank you so much for your service and sacrifice.
Thanks, Gene
Thanks, Gene
You are correct that there will be gross distribution inequities in the natural gas network for some time to come, particularly in the remote areas such as you mention. I live in the center of the largest natural gas field in North America but we can't get natural gas service to some rural acreage my wife owns.
However, the focus of my comments was on natural gas as a transportation fuel. There is sufficient distribution infrastructure already in place to deliver NG to retail distribution points just about anyplace in the US. Google "US natural gas pipeline system" and look at the maps.
Going back to an earlier point, natural gas will not as susceptible as gasoline to global market forces or geopolitical forces. For one thing, we have a gigantic portion of the world supply right here within our own borders. Second, natural gas does not have to be refined or seasonally blended. Third, as I said, our distribution network is already essentially in place. Fourth, NG is not as easily exportable as gasoline, minimizing global demand competition to some degree. Also, all these factors help create a price stability that is less subject to the hidden costs of speculation.
However, the focus of my comments was on natural gas as a transportation fuel. There is sufficient distribution infrastructure already in place to deliver NG to retail distribution points just about anyplace in the US. Google "US natural gas pipeline system" and look at the maps.
Going back to an earlier point, natural gas will not as susceptible as gasoline to global market forces or geopolitical forces. For one thing, we have a gigantic portion of the world supply right here within our own borders. Second, natural gas does not have to be refined or seasonally blended. Third, as I said, our distribution network is already essentially in place. Fourth, NG is not as easily exportable as gasoline, minimizing global demand competition to some degree. Also, all these factors help create a price stability that is less subject to the hidden costs of speculation.
Brad -- A well will be drilled down to reservoir depth gradually building angle to roughly 80-90 degrees with a bent housing mud motor, usually around 1 1/2 degree of bend,a mud motor is a tool with a stator inside that works similar to a hydraulic motor, when fluid is pumped through the mud motor at high pressure and volume the stator turns the bit. After reaching the horozontal point normally a more advanced mud motor that can be surface contolled or steered by a computer is used. In 99% of the wells the same drill pipe is used that would be used in a straight hole, the pipe its self is very limber in long sections and can be pushed with no problem. Basically, the drill string components that are normally used right above the bit for drilling weight when drilling a straight hole are moved up in the vertical section to push the lower limber section when drilling horozontal.
gene bender
Well-known Member
That is there but here i heard the Electric companies say that its risky now to build a new power plant burning natural gas till we get better means of transportation of the product.
Steve in VA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Natural Bridge Virginia
With respect, can we agree to cite our source when making declarative statements such as 'more than', 'less than', or 'ever in history'?
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
We will never be energy independent when it pays better to export it to China or others. Natural resources not only shouldn't be allowed to be traded on the stock market but also should be banned from export. There's enough other commodities and products to "make money" of of. Low cost natural resources made this country a power , high cost will do the opposite and allready is. If external_link wants to "socialize" something , it should be natural resources. After all , THEY DO BELONG TO ALL OF US IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! Why don't we build a pipeline to China and sell them ALL of our fresh water out of the Great Lakes??? MR external_link????????
Steve in VA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Natural Bridge Virginia
I can agree with your first statement. I can't agree with the distinction you make between a natural resource and a commodity. Merriam Webster's defines a commodity as "an economic good as a product of agriculture or mining." Oil is the main topic here and is surely a commodity. By the same token so are wheat, cattle, timber, lumber, and furniture. While many of us here decry the price of fuel because it is set by the world market, how many of us would restrict export and sale of agricultural resources to the world in order to sell them domestically at a lower price?
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
To me a commodity is something that can be reproduced at any rate called for by nessessity or profit. Natural resources are something allready here before man and in a finite quantity and a natural state. If we can "MAKE IT " then do whatever you wish BUT if you have to "STEAL" it from nature's earth , then it belongs to everyone and should be used by everyone equally after recovery costs subject to State and Federal boundry lines. Does anyone give a damn if this country survives or not??
Steve in VA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Natural Bridge Virginia
Easy there boss. I don't for one minute believe that anyone using this site has any desire to see this country fail. I'm sure everyone here has a slightly different opinion on any topic and feels frustrated but please don't ever question someone's patriotism based on a difference of opinion voiced during a converation on oil.
Now, back to the topic at hand. So, what I think I'm hearing is that your are OK with selling something like wheat or cattle because we can replace them; grow more. But you wouldn't support selling oil because once we dig it out of the ground then it's gone; consumed. Fair enough. I'm guessing that mining ore would be OK since we could always buy back the metals and reuse them? What about air? Would we stop factories from running because they are polluting the air and in essence using it up?
Now, back to the topic at hand. So, what I think I'm hearing is that your are OK with selling something like wheat or cattle because we can replace them; grow more. But you wouldn't support selling oil because once we dig it out of the ground then it's gone; consumed. Fair enough. I'm guessing that mining ore would be OK since we could always buy back the metals and reuse them? What about air? Would we stop factories from running because they are polluting the air and in essence using it up?
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