Concrete burn

Was pouring a large slab at a barn over the weekend. Using the loader on a NH TC45 to unload the truck and dump it where needed. Had a crew of 4 young helpers plus me and couple of them had never done it before so I was showing them how to use a 2x4 across the forms to level the concrete before I floated it. Knelt down in some wet concrete for just a couple of seconds to grab the 2x4, but I guess it was long enough to saturate my jeans at the knee. Couple hours later noticed knees were burning. Got home and showered and the skin on one knee was pretty burned, got worse that night and finally started to scab over and heal Sunday nite. I knew cement was caustic but usually I get it on my arms and hands and rinse it off fairly quickly. I think the key here was that the jeans kept my skin in contact with the caustic stuff and it was such a short exposure I didn't think anything of it. Just a word of caution to those of you who may dabble in pouring concrete around your places to be careful and keep the concrete off of your skin AND your clothes and if you do get it on you, flush it quickly with water. One controversial treatment is to pour vinegar on it right away. Sent the picture to a friend of my daughter who's a dermatologist and he said this type of burning can be very deep AND severe. The pain with this was bad enough, so I don't think I want to experience a "severe" case.

Had that happen to an acquaintance one time also. There was
something wrong with the cement (or concrete which ever keeps
everybody happy) cause he had been doing it many times before and
never had it happen before or since.

Who knows whatall was in that concrete besides cement and naavy jack. Perhaps some of the ingredients were reacting with your knee in a bad way. I've been saturated in concrete too,but didn't react anywheres near that bad.

I have done some cement work off and on since I was a kid of the farm. Always was self mixed stuff though with the cement mixer dad would use. I remember getting it all over our clothes and ourselfs between mixing, pouring and using it and none of us ever were affected by the cement.
When put an addition on my house about 15 years ago had the cement delivered and poured by the cement company. Me and my brother inlaw leveled the floor using the 2x4 with a level on it method. Know we got cement on us that time and no after affects.
This is the first I have ever heard of something like that happening. I wonder if there is a wrong mix that can cause this? Will have to ask my dad, he is 81 and is a wealth of knowlage. Have learned a lot from him over the years and still learn yet, but thats another topic.
Should be interesting to see the comments that come in from people that are around it a lot. Is there a difference between cement and concrete? I know there are different types and mixes of concrete but not if they are the same overall.
Take care of that burn, don't need infection in there now.

I did that once when working in Ohio. The rubber boots they gave had a hole in it and burnt my foot pretty bad. When I came home that weekend Dad mixed Castor oil and alcohol 50/50 and put it on the burn and it was fine the next day. That is good for about any kind of sore. Hope this helps.

That looks pretty hot! If you get concrete burns, or concrete poison as they used to call it, you can wash with the dark vinegar and that will cut through the concrete and wash it off. Just soap and water will not cut through the concrete film on your skin.

A lot more in concrete than sand,gravel and cement.Used to dispatch and batch concrete we had about 20 different tanks of additives.

That is a hard lesson about concrete, hopefully you will heal up and forget what knee it was on !

Concrete has Lye in it, very caustic indeed, you think that burn is bad, do some research on concrete burns, I recall seeing photos in ACI (American Concrete Institute) journals, years ago while researching a term project in college on concrete, lesion like, discolored almost like a snake venom creates necrosis, I would imagine there are photos to be found on the net somewhere.

Any portland cement based material when fresh, especially concrete, mortar, etc. probably spray on fireproofing, (portland type, not gypsum base) will burn you. Its a good idea to have a MSDS sheet on any of these materials and have a tool box safety meeting on same, that photo sends a clear message !

I can say that limited exposure of mortar to ones fingers will remove the fingerprints in short order, absolutely nothing to fool with, and I've heard all the "hoopla" by old set in their ways contractors.... naaaaaaaa wont hurt ya... guess again ! Look at a carless masons hands from years of exposure to these materials, that'll learn ya ! LOL !

Use to drive a mixer, One day I delivered bout 6 yards to a young womem that was pouring a shed floor, she jumped right in the crete in her bare feet! told her if she had any rubber boots to get them on or she wouln't have any skin left on her feet! Well seems she didn't have any, helped all I could raked it round and stuff, But I had more crete to haul. When I left she was in it in her bare feet again. guese she didn't belive Me.

Cement comes in a bag and concrete is mixed cement and aggregates + water or some wetting agent.In some parts of the country which has long delivery routes ready mix co"s.add a conditioner to keep the concrete semi fluid until delivery and this depends on the length of transit as to how much conditioner is added.Here in this part of Arizona a 75 to 100 mile delivery is not out of the ordinary.

Thanks for the comments. Seems to be a mixed bag of experiences (pun intended). I've been doing a fair amount of concrete last couple of years, usually small batches, yard or less, where I've got a pickup load of 60/40 sand/gravel mix, enough Portland cement for a 6 bag mix and have at it with a mixer. I've never had this kind of reaction. I have had cases where the cement (powder) has gotten on my skin and even after a shower it still looks like they're not clean, pretty much like the film Bob1958 describes. But by the next day, skin looks normal. Pretty much like oldtractorfun's experiences.

Since this came from a batch plant, hard to say what additives may have been put in. The plant was less than 10 minutes away, so I wouldn't have expected they would have had to add any anti-setting conditioners, but who knows, especially if they've 20 some tanks of stuff like TraditionalFarmer says. At least with the stuff I've mixed by hand, I know nothing is in it but Portland Cement and sand/gravel.

And BillyNY, I do remember a friend in my youth whose dad was a mason and never wore gloves and he had the gnarliest looking hands I've seen to this day. Yeah, I did an Internet search after it happened and was surprised the amount of information out there on it. I would have expected that young lady rusted nuts ran into might have rated a bunch of publicity if/when she ended up in the hospital.

Learn something new everyday. Unfortunately this was a painful lesson. Luckily, my knees can suffer a little scarring (they're not my best feature anyway) and I'll keep them covered so little kids won't shrink in horror if they see me at the beach.

I don't think that there is anything controversial about using vinegar to neutralize caustic. just do it quickly. I used to work with caustic all the time in foodservice and use to get it on my fingers and just reached for vinegar, lemon, lime, whatever was available to neutralize it quickly. Once I sat down on a bucket that had some on top. Suddenly I was burning! went to restroom quickly grabbing lemons on the way.

Something else bout buying crete from redymix plants, ALWAYS buy 1st loads out of the plant in the morning if you can, never get any rejected loads that way, any company I ever hauled crete for would resell rejected loads, usely for footers but if there was no orders for footers it still got resold.

The dermatologist friend of my daughter mentioned it to be controversial. Not sure why. I'll ask him next time I see him. Like you, I would think anything to balance the pH of the solution would be helpful.

Here is some general information by PCA, does give a stout warning about what it can do to ones skin.
Concrete Info

More info, quick little paragraph on why its, alkali, caustic, as well why variances occur, my rule of thumb is to wash it off immediately with water, no trouble to worry about then.
Concrete alkali

I spent 3 days mixing cement on the 3pt mixer and plastering it into the barn wall a decade ago.

I didn't know the stuff is supposed to be hard on the skin. I put the stuff in the voids mostly by hand, more so than with a trowel.

My fingers got real soft, took the calouses off. Never any ill effects, no burning or nothing like that.

As a kid, dad would mix up small batches, for fixing up small areas. I played with the stuff like it was playdough.

Am I jusr different; or are their some formulations that burn, and others that don't & I just always had the 'others', or what is the deal?

I sure don't want to do something like that to mtself, but I'm not sure why what I've done hasn't caused me any problems over the years?

--->Paul

I've done and or supervised quite a bit of concrete work in the past, and as with any material, you need to know what you are dealing with, especially safety and is why we have MSDS sheets for most materials.

Concrete is a mix design of composite aggregates, a cementitious material (portland cement) which bonds the aggregate together. Design mixes vary, aggregate materials vary in properties, as per where the aggregate comes from, there is a certain size from each sieve size (screens of ascending sizes), certain percent passing from each, that comprises a particular design mix, to attain a compressive strength, for a particular application, be it a slab or a beam, column, pier, etc. Water is added, in proportion to cementitious material, is referred to as the water/cement ratio and is extremely important to the compressive strength of the design mix, too much or too little of either will cause the material to fail, it has to be per the design mix, design. Once you add water, and lest we not forget any admixtures, such as accelerators, super plasticizers, what have you etc., you do have a chemical reaction of sorts regardless, and if you look at the links I posted above, I think each site I posted, the information describes why concrete is caustic or can be in varying degrees, at least in laymans terms, which is all most need to know about it, including me ! It burns ... handle accordingly, very simple concept LOL !!!

worked with a guy onetime that almost lost his legs
to concrete. they were pouring a thick slab, maybe
18 inches thick, he had only tennis shoes on and
lightweight pants. waded right out in it to work it.
took several hours. severe burns , never walked
right again also never worked again.

For years we"ve had to sign a disclaimer when the concrete is delivered, saying we are aware of concrete mix burns.

(quoted from post at 00:09:57 08/24/11) Here is some general information by PCA, does give a stout warning about what it can do to ones skin.

Click to expand...

Billy, good info. Why the heck didn't you post it last week? :lol: But.. like a lot of other posters, I've worked with concrete, made balls with it to stuff holes, smoothed small patches with my bare hand, etc. and NEVER had a reaction like this. I guess I just think I'm immune to bad consequences sometimes.

I heard from the local guys that work with it all the time that once you get a "cherry", it is easy to get one again.

I know, day late, dollar short, darn it, could have saved ya from that burn LOL ! It looks like its healing up well, when appropriate, you may want to look into topical ointments for anti-scarring, looks like it won't scar ya though.

I think it is great that you posted this because, it's good safety discussion on concrete, for anyone not knowing what it can do, photos tend to stick in ones mind. I did read a survey done about the awareness of concrete being alkaline, caustic, lots of people out there don't realize how serious it is or can be.

With all the tractor collectors, farmers, and so on, concrete slabs are commonly built in barns, buildings etc, its definitely relevant to the forum here.

I've done the same, but did learn that it was caustic, and more so when in college after doing that research, because while in school, I was working in construction full time, so much of the materials we used in the day, I was learning more about at night, used to do 1 semester at night, the next days when laid off for winter. I can't count how many masons, bricklayers I've seen with those gnarly hands from handling the material. I never liked the feel of that material on my skin and always washed it off immediately, brief exposure, you can notice the beginning stages of a burn.

As concrete cures (hydrates-portland absorbs water) it also creates heat, which should also tip one off about burning ones skin.

What the person below described, legs burnt, is what can happen, that person had no clue, you absolutely cannot wade in the material without boots. Always use eye protection, always spatter to worry about, get that in your eye you will know it quickly. I recall the photos in those ACI journals were along those lines, severe burns, not sure if permanently disabling though, they did stick in my mind.

Some images - a bit graphic !
1

2

(quoted from post at 12:49:56 08/23/11) Was pouring a large slab at a barn over the weekend. Using the loader on a NH TC45 to unload the truck and dump it where needed. Had a crew of 4 young helpers plus me and couple of them had never done it before so I was showing them how to use a 2x4 across the forms to level the concrete before I floated it. Knelt down in some wet concrete for just a couple of seconds to grab the 2x4, but I guess it was long enough to saturate my jeans at the knee. Couple hours later noticed knees were burning. Got home and showered and the skin on one knee was pretty burned, got worse that night and finally started to scab over and heal Sunday nite. I knew cement was caustic but usually I get it on my arms and hands and rinse it off fairly quickly. I think the key here was that the jeans kept my skin in contact with the caustic stuff and it was such a short exposure I didn't think anything of it. Just a word of caution to those of you who may dabble in pouring concrete around your places to be careful and keep the concrete off of your skin AND your clothes and if you do get it on you, flush it quickly with water. One controversial treatment is to pour vinegar on it right away. Sent the picture to a friend of my daughter who's a dermatologist and he said this type of burning can be very deep AND severe. The pain with this was bad enough, so I don't think I want to experience a "severe" case.

Click to expand...

Cement kilns are often used for hazardous disposal. We used to do metals testing on catalyst samples. I asked what happens to the spent refinery catalyst and I was told it goes to a cement kiln. The prevailing mentality says that what isn't incinerated will be encapsulated. You could have encountered almost any compound.

Thank you all so much for the stern warning of the dangers of concrete mix. I worked construction for awhile and never knew of the dangers other than it tend to dry out the skin. Thankfully I've never received any damage that others have mentioned. Had it on pants leg, got some in a boot one time, etc.

So thankful for the heads up on this as I'll certainly be more careful in the future.

Hope you heal quickly and completely.

That is nuts, those kinds of burns on your feet.... cannot imagine what the outcome was, maybe she washed it off quickly, people do the dumbest things even after they have been told, and is why graphic images, photos, reality, leave an indelible mark into ones memory.

I work in a gob/waste coal fired plant and ash burns (caustic) are common for a few of us. Some folks skin is more reactive than others. The trick to pH burns is that an acid burns its way in. You know when it is happening. It feels like a bee-sting or a pinch. A caustic gets in and burns its way out. Emulsifies the skin and makes soap out of your hide. You literally wash off your skin. It is a much worse burn and in most cases you do not know it has occurred until it is too late. Knowing that you are susceptible to this type of burn will let you know next time.

When you make soap, you treat fat with a strong base (caustic) to sever the ester from the fatty acid tail. A caustic burn does the exact same thing to the phospho-lipid bilayer that is your skin.

Good Luck,

Aaron