Sheared big end bolts - never happened before

Bill from Scotland · Aug 10, 2011

Tightening up big end bolts on my MF97 today, torque set for 130 lbs. Bolts never seemed to reach the torque setting and one just sheared off. Has anyone any ideas. Torque wrench was set correctly. I have just ordered some new ones but I guess this will take a week or so to arrive from across the pond. I dont want the same happening again.
Bill

Mike (WA) · Aug 10, 2011

Massey 97 has some age on it. Do you have to tighten these bolts periodically? Each time you tighten, they stretch a little, and it sounds like yours are just plain worn out. If they won't reach the torque setting, they're about to twist off (like one did), and need to be replaced.

I'm betting in another 50 years, you'll have to replace them again!

bill mart · Aug 10, 2011

What are big end bolts on the Massey 97? Bill M.

Gene Hillman · Aug 10, 2011

Your first reply asked what the "big end bolts" are? That question needs to be answered and giving the diameter of the broken bolts would be a good idea too. Big end bolts sometimes refer to connecting rod bolts but I doubt the torque on those would be that high. Give us some more info please.

Anonymous-0 · Aug 10, 2011

As General Patton said, "2 peoples devided by a common language". Big End = Main Bearings on the Crankshaft, Small End = Wrist Pin Bearings in the Piston. Those UK people will talk about "spraying the wing" when there is no airplane in sight! Don't know what is wrong here but the "bolts never seem to reach torque setting" suggests trying a different torque wrench.

Bob Bancroft · Aug 10, 2011

Then what do you call the rod bearings? Medium end?

Anonymous-0 · Aug 10, 2011

I was just trying to make it make sence on both sides of the pond. If you look at a connecting rod, you will see that it has bearings at both ends. One big and one small, both on the same connecting rod. They call connecting rods connecting rods. So when I talk about the rod bearing it may not make sence to someone in the UK. I thought that when I called it a wrist pin, or if you like rod bearing, piston pin bearing or a gudgeon bearing, I thought every mechanic in the USA would know what I was talking about. Guess I was wrong. Maby Patton understated the case, perhaps English is the common language that seperates the USA also.

bill mart · Aug 10, 2011

thank you for the clarifacation.Dont think I would have figured it out. Bill

Bob Bancroft · Aug 10, 2011

Could be I don't qualify as a mechanic- but- to me a main bearing is the interface between the block and the crankshaft. The rod bearing is the interface between the connecting rod and the crankshaft. I have used "piston pin" and "wrist pin" interchangeably.(The interface between the connecting rod and the piston).
Is this not correct?
And yes, we are such a big country, our common language does change with geography doesn't it!

ErnieD · Aug 10, 2011

I would have the torque wrench calibration checked; particularly if it is a click type wrench. I don't trust them.

Anonymous-0 · Aug 10, 2011

www.justanswer.com/Ferguson

Bill.. 5 mechanics on line, don"t know if it costs.

buickanddeere · Aug 10, 2011

That is why re-using fasteners is never a good idea. One doesn't know what abuse they may have been previously exposed to.
As previously stated. The torque wrench calibration does sound suspect.

BushogPapa · Aug 10, 2011

I think most people (Farm people, anyway) would be able to tell what 130 lbs feels like and would know if it was just NOT right..!!
I know I can get within 10 to 15 lb with a Box-end wrench..

Ron..

BushogPapa · Aug 10, 2011

I think most people (Farm people, anyway) would be able to tell what 130 lbs feels like and would know if it was just NOT right..!!
I know I can get within 10 to 15 lb with a Box-end wrench..

Ron..

Anonymous-0 · Aug 10, 2011

I would also have that rod resized by a machine shop. I did the same thing about 20 years ago on a Waukesha engine in an RC Case and did not have the rod resized. I just put it together with all new bolts; the second parade I was in, the rod seized up and spun a bearing. I still haven't fixed it, but now I have a new engine I'm going to put in the tractor.

Anonymous-0 · Aug 11, 2011

Yes you are right, that is what a main bearing is, as we all wanted 4 bolt mains on our 350 Chevys. I was thinking in British. As I understand it they (the UK) called them "deck bearings", the mains were on the big end of the conecting rod. I could be wrong, it happens. This weekend I am going to see my friend Howard, he grew up in Bromley, in Kent. He used to hotrod Vaxhauls (sp?) a GM product I guess. I will ask. I wasn't trying to be a mechanic, I was trying to use my experience to translate english to american. Looks like I couldn't even do that correctly.

Bill from Scotland · Aug 11, 2011

Sorry for the confusions, big end bearings here in Scotland are the rod bearing where it meets the crank, opposite end from wrist pin.
130 lbs was a torque setting which I read on this site a while back and this appears to be where the problem is. Just managed to get a IT Shop Manual for the MM705/MF97 and guess what the torque setting should be around 80-85 lbs so I guess I wrecked the bolts because I over torqued them. I have ordered up some new ones from Wendell Everett so should get them in a few days.
bill

Anonymous-0 · Aug 11, 2011

I have always understood;;;

1. big ends holds the crank shaft in.
2.. small end holds the connecting rod to the crank.
3.. gudgeon pin holds the piston to the connecting rod.

What would you call number 1.??

oldtanker · Aug 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 18:53:28 08/10/11)
I think most people (Farm people, anyway) would be able to tell what 130 lbs feels like and would know if it was just NOT right..!!
I know I can get within 10 to 15 lb with a Box-end wrench..

Ron..

LOL most of the "farm" people I know today don't do engines! They stick in remans and keep plugging......come to think about it back in the day most farmer didn't overhaul thier own. Sure there were some who did but most still hired somone to rebuild engines!

Rick

BushogPapa · Aug 11, 2011

I started my "learning" from the Guy that worked on our tractors (years ago), I would ride my bicycle
up to Dean's and wake him up (he lived in his very OLD panel truck, not in the house)...
NO phone or electricity..but had an OLD (WPA?) gas Generator for when he needed a drill or trouble- light..
Learned how to tell when bearing clearances are right, with the use of a small Hammer, by watching how the rods moved when tapped..
There won't be any more fellas like Dean Phillips, Mechanic...!!!

Ron..

Leroy · Aug 11, 2011

Reading this I thought he was talking about the back axle.

Bill from Scotland · Aug 11, 2011

Main bearings.

greygoat · Aug 11, 2011

Torque wrench set correct? Inch pounds or foot
pounds?

Kentb of SWMO · Aug 11, 2011

I have NEVER worked on a MF 97 BUT 130 Ft/Lb for a rod bearing torque is MIGHT HIGH. This sounds like the torque for the Main Bearing bolt/capscrew/studs. I would think Rod bearing bolts would be somewhere in the 60 Ft/Lb range. You did not say what size the rod bearing bolts/capscrews are. You will need to replace the rod bolt now and when you replace the rod bolts, YOU SHOULD have the big end of the rods re-sized at a machine shop.

Kent

sotxbill · Aug 11, 2011

how many more rod bolts did you overtorque and are fixing to break??

sotxbill · Aug 11, 2011

and how many inserts or bearings did you damage by over torqueing??

need to relook at it.

showcrop · Aug 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 02:38:45 08/11/11)

(quoted from post at 18:53:28 08/10/11)
I think most people (Farm people, anyway) would be able to tell what 130 lbs feels like and would know if it was just NOT right..!!
I know I can get within 10 to 15 lb with a Box-end wrench..

Ron..

Click to expand...

LOL most of the "farm" people I know today don't do engines! They stick in remans and keep plugging......come to think about it back in the day most farmer didn't overhaul thier own. Sure there were some who did but most still hired somone to rebuild engines!

Rick

e used to say that torque wrench in french is mateau.

Sheared big end bolts - never happened before

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