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New tractor vs. old for pulling power

C

Country Nate

Member
There is alot of tractor knowledge on here, and I would like to read your opinions on this...

Help me to understand the differences between comparable tractors (same horsepower ratings) from the 50's, 60's, and early 70's vs. today's new tractors. Do they pull about the same, or do the old ones pull better (or worse)? Also, I would like to read your opinions on 4wd tractors vs. 2wd. Does 4wd pull better than 2wd?
 
Hi Nate, I have a neighbor that has a small JD utility tractor that is in the 25 to 30 HP range and my old Farmall H will pull a lot harder than his little tractor will. I'm sure that weight has a lot to do with that. He has a loader on it and a small bush hog. He wanted to use my old 8' disk that my H just plays with and he could not handle it at all.
 
That's a rather opened ended group of questions without any particulars.
It's all about how the load is hitched. Tire size, type, inflation. 2WD or 4WD on what kind of soil and how heavy a draft load. Lbs drawbar pull per gallon per hour fuel consumption. Or what do you want to hear?
The newer tractors in general will burn less fuel per HP per hour until Tier IV emissions are enacted.
You are going get more "opinion" than results verified by calibrated instrumentation by qualified techs and engineers.
A new 150HP M4WD on radials will work 1000 acres of loose soil on less fuel. Than a 40yr old 2WD bias ply 150Hp tractor.
 

4wd/MFWD will out pull a 2wd unless the 2wd is a lot larger in stature & hp.
Weight is needed to transfer hp to the ground.

Older tractors generally had a higher weight per hp ratio so therefore could pull with or out pull newer tractors of equal hp.

Also older tractors as a rule had larger CID engines than newer models
 
Limiting the discussion to pulling power alone, it is probably accurate to conclude that most 50s, 60s and early 70s vintage tractors will out pull recently manufactured tractors of similar HP simply because the modern versions are generally considerably lighter.

Dean
 
would really be hard to say accross the board,but in my experience tractors of today seem to be geared higher than the older ones,( even though they tend to have more gears)so i'd have to go with the older in that regard.But, that also has a lot to do with why tractor pulls go by weight class instead of hp also.tractors of comparable hp's tend to be lighter today than a few years ago also it seems to me, so that would make a difference.if you added weight to them I really dont think you'd see much difference in old versus new and comparable hp.
 
Well, opinion is the only thing I have concerning this. The Nebraska tests were done on the old ones, but I can't find too much info on the new ones...

Tier IV emmisions? Are the new EPA regulations making them worse?

I realize most of the new ones are pretty fuel efficient. Some of the old ones were good on fuel as well, I think my old 730D makes it's own fuel. lol..

Ok, lets be more specific.

Lets assume it's the same soil, and other conditions.

Compare a new 4wd 90-95 pto hp to a JD 4020, or Int 806. Anybody done this?
 
Oh my no! Please don't go there. Not ISO certified tractors and ISO testing technicians now. Certifications are the biggest joke ever established. This is just a simple country folk website...
 
Go to the Nebraska tests, compare max drawbar pull and drawbar hp.
4wd/mfwd = more drawbar pull and hp
more weight = more drawbar pull
more hp = more drawbar hp if you have the weight

Simple as that, no need to stir up a bunch of old vs new.
 
Ken, I tried that. Most of the new ones I tried to look up arn't on the Nebraska tests.

"no need to stir up old vs. new" Why not, this is a tractor discussion board isn't it?
 
Nate, you could debate this all day, find new tractors that pull better than old and old that pull better than new. Big tractors pull better than small and so on and so on.

Personally, if I were to buy a new tractor with a front end loader, I'd probably go with a smaller tractor and would prefer 4wd. Reason being, a loaded bucket sometimes takes traction off the back tires and if you're working on inclines or tight places, having power to the front wheels is a good thing.

When I use to frequent the antique tractor pulls, it sure seemed to me that the old olivers with the six cylinders could jerk the sled the length of the run, but I sure use to love watching the old johnny poppers lug down to almost a stall before giving up.

I honestly think that if you're not just making conversation, tell us what your intended application is going to be and I imagine you'll get some spot on advise and opinions. :wink:
 
I would say it would depend on the new tractor. We have always had 100 series Massey's. I bought a new MF 583. Other than the sheet metal / platform and it is MFWD, it seems very reminiscent of a 175. Rear axle / top cover / Ferguson hydrualics etc are very similar, it seems to be a heavy tractor. I would venture to say it shares a few castings with the old 100 series.
 
I would say your answer just puts the head on the nail HP ratings of some of the new dont mean they can pull a load.
 
In my never to be humble opinion,as long as you're only talking 2 wheel drive,if you want to talk less than 90 horse power,those tractors nowdays are meant mostly to be utility tractors,not built to pull like the older row crop tractors. I never tried it,but I would bet a few bucks that my Oliver 1850 would outpull a newer Agco RT90 or its equivilent,just because it was made to. Horsepower or the 2 would be just about equal.
 
Same soil? Both working on sand or both working on hard pack clay?
Takes fuel to burn the soot from the particulate filter. All that cooled exhaust gas fed back into the intake manifold and an extra turbo all make for losses.
More $$$ to maintain that common rail system over the next 10,000hrs vs a Bosch P pump and a simple Air Research turbo.
 
rrlund your thoughts are basically the same as mine. 2wd, the old ones pull better, but the new 4wd tractors of the same hp might outpull even the old 2wd.
 
Thats just because yours weighs more, was designed for more drawbar pull. Your neighbours is designed for pto work like a mower, which he would be able to outperform your tractor on.
 
OK to make this interesting let us add a Oliver 1850. I have worked a 1850 in the same field as a 4020 pulling the same size disc and that 1850 would out work the 4020 day in and day out.
gitrib
 
I would also put my H up against any new 25 hp tractor, Which my ride on lawnmower suposedly has HAHA. But on a serious note, The B-275 at the farm can pull the 10' or 12' disk faster then the newer NH 2120 pulls it. There is a pretty big diffrence in HP there to.
 
Had to be be something different that didn't know about or mention. Both tractors are near identical in Nebraska tests.
Sure it wasn't an 1950 with the 4-53 Detroit?
 
Had a neighbor couple years ago had a retaining wall fail due to heavy rains, had a boat 1/2 off the edge but had a 10x10 lawn building in the way, another friend of the neighbor had a new 50 hp 4x4 with loader he bought over to move the boat. boat would not move. I said why not move the lawn building (packed full of mowers, motor cycles... very heavy) first and pull it sideways, again moved about 6 inches and he spun out. I went and got my old 630 JD with 45 loader. I hooked the building short and pulled the building out in the spin ruts the other tractor made, also pulled the boat out too. Tire size 14.9 x 38 and knowing how to use a tractor to pull helped too
 
Put then side by side on the same pto load.The new one will make the same power on less fuel.
Once again somebody trots out an apples to oranges comparison and thinks they have something to say.
Take a look at the two different chassis and tire designs.
How would the H do cutting grass and doing 4X4 loader work b.t.w. ?
 
And my red blooded brother-in law claims their 1086 ran on less fuel than his uncle's 4440.

I haven't read any discussions on transmissions. Powershift vs straight gear as far as percentage of horsepower going to the wheels goes. Back in the sixties all the non-Deere brands put Deere's powershift down for soaking up too many horses. Today we have mostly IVT's and powershifts available to us in the larger tractors. Come to think of it, we should think about percentage of power that actually reaches the wheels new vs old, huge hydraulics on today's tractors soaking up power, Closed center vs open center. Old tractors didn't even HAVE a hydraulic pump and if they did it wasn't live power and could possible be disconnected when not needed. Jim
 
I am sure it did, 30-40 series deeres drank fuel as if through a floodgate! A 300hp 2870 Case 4x4 took less gals. per hr than a 4440. Glad I am not feeding one those pigs $3.70/gal. dsl!
 
I was sitting in the stands at a county fair old pulling contest. A moline UB (I'm guessing 47 pto hp) came up the track, died down but kept lugging at about 180 ft mark but kept dragging sled up to about 280. Next was a JD 5203 (about 48 PTO hp). Walked up the tract to about 180 and died suddenly. Next a Super M ( about 47 PTO hp) Up the track, really started lugging & died down a bit at 180, but just kept on pulling sled up to about 190 ft. These all three were just off the farm plain jane tractors.
 
I find HP is HP new and old are the same. What you have to think about is newer tractors have (in many cases) a better transmission match with more speeds and many can shift while moving. This can make the newer tractor SEEM more powerful.
If you pull at the same speed without changing gears an older tractor (of same HP) may seem more powerful if it is heavier.
 
It all depends on the engine, transmission etc. In the bigger tractors (140hp+) I would say about the same pulling power at the same speed but you will likely get more work done with a newer tractor because of the extra gears. On the smaller stuff, the older tractors will likely do more because at the time they were the main field tractor, but now the same HP tractor is a utility tractor. Put a newer Kubota tractor up against an older tractor for loader and yard work and tell me which one is better. That said though, there is the odd modern utility tractor that has a larger engine. (i.e-NH/Ford TS90)
 
I got a 2002 ASV with a little 105 hp 4 cyl cat turbo diesel in it.The damm thing goes easely trough 30 gal diesel in an 8 hr day.
So much for fuel efficiency.

On the other hand my 93 belarus 925 with a 105 hp 4 cyl turbo diesel can go three 8 hr days on 34 gal.
And then they say russian tractors are junk.
 
B& D I ran a 65 Hp John Deere a 6305?on the same load as the 730 and oh my gosh does that new one like fuel.a/c and improved hyd dont that much almost 3 times as much.That being said I will defer to your alleged greater than me intellect
 
Wasn't me.
Some donkey went and compared the pulling power of a field tractor to the pulling power of a lawn tractor. Look for yourself.
Quote "I would also put my H up against any new 25 hp tractor, Which my ride on lawnmower suposedly has HAHA." Unquote.
 
Once again ol'bubba trots out his opinion in an apples and oranges comparison.
Lets see, a mid sized 2WD rowcrop tractor vs. a large articulated 4X4 tractor.
Another thing bubba doesn't know either is. All other factors identical, a single large machine is more efficient than a smaller machine which works at a lower efficiency of scale.

Smaller Deere 4440, 12.66HP per gallon per hr.
Larger Case 2870, 13.00HP per gallon per hour.
Quote" 4440 series deeres drank fuel as if through a floodgate! A 300hp 2870 Case 4x4 took less gals. per hr than a 4440. Glad I am not feeding one those pigs" Unquote.

Foodgate? Pigs? Odd choice of words to describe the over matched underdog that nearly equaled the Case anyways. The 4440 today is certainly worth more than the Case and a more user friendly machine.

Getting into an apples to apples comparison of a Deere 8640 vs. the Case 2870.
The Deere is the hands down WINNER in fuel efficiency with 15.9HP per gallon per hour vs. the Case floodgate fuel hog with only 13.00HP per gallon per hour.
How's that?
b.t.w. how is trade in value of the Case 2870 vs. the Deere 8640? How are the ears from riding in the quieter Deere cab?
 
That wasnt saying that that is a reasonable comparison. Im saying that There is pretty much no reasonable sized tractor now that is 25 HP. Im still not seeing anywhere in his original question where he asks anything about fuel consumption, PTO power, or loader work. He asks about PULLING POWER. I guess that my inferior brain doesn't compare to you being the almighty.
 
(quoted from post at 13:17:16 05/20/11) how heavy a draft load. Lbs drawbar pull per gallon per hour fuel consumption. The newer tractors in general will burn less fuel per HP per hour until Tier IV emissions are enacted.
Click to expand...

buickanddeere
Here is Country Nate's question Do they pull about the same, or do the old ones pull better (or worse)?

He didn't ask which models supposedly use less fuel or have more hp hrs per gallon.
You stated and I quote you "Ask away. I'm always there to lend you a hand buddy"
.
How does fuel consumption enter into the question of which will pull more per hp old or new tractors?
 
Oh yes I believe that.My neighbor's 4630 burns more fuel than 3 Fords--combined!And my 4040 would burn 7 gph.
 
Then again a Ford 8N doesn't burn very much because it's less power than a medium sized lawn mower.
You will need more than three 8N's to keep up with the 4040 or 4630.
 
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