turning up a tractor

hopefully this doesnt start a big debate....

but, how many of you keep your tractors stock? seems like more and more people have their tractors turned up. makes me wonder how long they will last... all the tractors on our farm are stock, or at least real close. I know there are a few tractors that are basically all turned up.

exp. IH 1066 JD 40, 50, 55 series tractors

is it ok to have turbos and pumps turned up on 40+ year old tractors?

are your tractors stock, or turned up a bit, or a lot?

I don't think there's any one right or wrong answer to that question...
I have one turned up approximately 20%. One needs to keep in mind that the same engine I have turned up is run at that same spec in another model of tractor. So that power level is not necessarly harmfull to the engine. Other factors one needs to consider is the cooling capacity... both water and oil. Some have quite a bit of extra capacity built in. Some don't...
Other factors are application... If you turned an engine up by 30% and then sent it out to do heavy drawbar work you could probably expect a short engine life, clutch, transmission and rear end problems. The same tractor doing utility work that spreads that power output between the PTO and driveline most of the time so that it's not putting all of the power through one shaft... then that probably would not cause any great harm to the drives. Might still cook the engine tho...
Another thing to consider... duty cycle. Are you running it at maximum power all day long or in 3 minute bursts followed by ample time to cool off? I chop silage and haul a lot of manure with mine... and it works hard for 5-10 minutes at most then it has a few minutes to cool while waiting for the truck or it's at least working at reduced load. Many times the manufacturer will rate an engine at a 'continous' power rating and then an 'intermittent' rating that will be somewhat higher. A case in point would be the ISB5.9 Cummins engine in a later Dodge truck. They were rated for something like 350 HP. I expect that would be a very intermittent rating... wheras an N14 Cummins rated at 350 hp would do that continously for a VERY long time.
Many factors to consider.

Rod

Food for thoughton't you think manufacturers know the limit of their engine horsepower output ? After all they are selling all the power that safely can sell and still have some long term form of engine reliability and they would squeeze all the horsepower out of their products they can safely squeeze ?This is coming from someone who has probably turned the screw up on as many tractors as anyone here. If it tells you anything, none of my tractors are turned up beyond manufacture's maximum specs.

I look at 10% as an improvement.

4440 is over 225 hp it has 10000+ hrs. 4850 is over 260 hp it has almost 10000 hrs. I run them hard but I dont abuse them and I am the only one running those two tractors. If I were to turn the high school kid that works for me loose on one for the whole day I would turn them down some or there would be problems.

My '76 IH 706D(310 german)is factory rated at 75 hp.it is now dynoed at 96 hp.It was turboed at 6000 hrs and now has over 10,000 hrs.I do have a pyrometer,and wstch it closely.

Depends. Similar tractor with the same frame, driveline, turbo, intercooler, rad etc. Just a different set of decals and injection pump ratings.
Then there are the applications when the next HP range up was equipped with more cooling, heavier drivetrain.
Turning up a 4250 to 4450 power ratings is one thing. Trying to dial a 4450 up to try and follow a 4850 is something else.

"is it ok to have turbos and pumps turned up on 40+ year old tractors?"

I turn the turbos up on ALL my tractors. Wouldn't have it any other way!

My 4020 turned 108, vs fasctory about 93-94? for 8700 hrs. 4430 was rated 125, turned 137 for over 11000 hours, no problems- first engine. 4240 is rated 110, turns 125, 4450 rated 145, turns 190 after the rebuilt pump went on, but the tech said, if we really push it, we can hit 240. I wanted it turned down a bit, like ok 10-15% over- he said, as long as you pull the same load, same speed, you"ll be ok. It IS nice to have that extra schnootz when going through a tough spot! With the 15 speed Power Shift, I need to watch the water temp gauge, since it will pull extra load for a long time. 8 speed Power Shift is not so tolerant of an overload.

I dont fear turning up a Turbo as I see no harm in stuffing more air into the cylinders. HOWEVER when it comes to increasing fuel and temperatures and stress and strain in general, I see it as a matter of engineering trade offs of HP versus stress and strain and engine longevity. The engineers consider all such factors in their design and settle for the best trade offs yielding max HP versus longevity. Now if one makes modifications its true he may gain more HP but physics and material science just tells me something else has to suffer which may not be apparrent in the short run but over long time it could come back to bite you.

But hey its your tractor and your choice to turn up anything you well please, Im ONLY saying there have to be trade offs when you do

John T (Electrical NOT Mechanical Engineer so dont put much too much salt on this lol)

So was the manufacturer wrong when they delivered our 1486 set at 190HP?

(quoted from post at 19:02:33 05/16/11) hopefully this doesnt start a big debate....

but, how many of you keep your tractors stock? seems like more and more people have their tractors turned up. makes me wonder how long they will last... all the tractors on our farm are stock, or at least real close. I know there are a few tractors that are basically all turned up.

exp. IH 1066 JD 40, 50, 55 series tractors

is it ok to have turbos and pumps turned up on 40+ year old tractors?

are your tractors stock, or turned up a bit, or a lot?

Click to expand...

Everyone seems to assume that because it came from the factory a certain way, then that is the only way. A rule of thumb for diesel engines is that if it is burning black on a heavy load, it isn't set up correctly. This of course will cause engine problems and even failure.

One thing I have noticed in my years of being around tractors is there are people who can tear up a stock tractor with no problem whatsoever and others who can run a tractor at 30+% over for years with no problems. The manufacturers have to build in a very conservative margin of error in tractors so the first group is less likely to destroy their work. There isn't anything made with more than one moving part that someone out there can't tear up, even if it is stock. Mike

Yep,some guys can destroy an anvil with a rubber hammer.

I guess high horsepower diesel tractors don't have pyrometers on them? I ran Cummins 350hp in a Freightliner turned up past 400hp. Water temperature guage is not enough when playing with turned up pumps combined with heavy loads and such. You need to know the internal temperatures of the engine.

Sorry, missed the pyrometer comment below.

i would agree with the majority of you. seems like it is ok if you have a good mechanical background of the tractor or if the tractor is newer, but buying a 40-50 year old tractor and turning it up isnt a great idea. but.... if you know how to update the rest of the tractor to cool the engine down, strengthen the rearend, clutch, transmission etc.

pretty interesting to hear about tractors turning that much more hp than the factory. i know my cousins have a white american 80 fwa that stock should be 81hp but they bought it new and the dealer had it set at 145hp. also know another neighbor who turned a 1066 up to about 165hp. it was a rough tractor to start with.

What ya turn em up fer? To pour out the soot of course... Bahahahah