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1946 John Deere B continued

C

cookieman8772

Member
I still cannot make this tractor run. Carb has been sent out and rebuild professionally. Magneto and ignition system is professionally rebuilt. New head gasket. It may start, but it doesn't run right. Won't increase rpm.

I don't understand why it has 130 psi compression. There's no mechanical reason for that other than not stock pistons. (Tractor is all fuel).

The magneto seems to be firing even on the exhaust stroke. Tried advancing timing. No luck. It has a strong blue spark thru the plugs.

Carb was ran on another tractor and worked as designed.

The flywheel is rotating counterclockwise on an electric starter.

Intake and exhaust systems are clear and pose no restrictions.

I have no idea why it won't run.
 
I do not think anybody would do this but you are not
trying to run it on another fuel other than gasoline, like
a distillate? Because that will not work, to burn a fuel
like that the tractor has to be brought up to temp on
gasoline and then switched to the distillate and be
continuously worked when burning that fuel to keep
the engine temp up. Another problem may be the spark
plug condition. What do the plugs look like? Black
sooty gas fouled plugs will not fire well at all. You can
clean them with carb cleaner, a wire brush and
compressed air. Usually multiple applications of this is
best.
 

High compression? Barely idles? Spark and fuel O.K.?

You wouldn't happen to have one of these, would you?

http://www.wwdsltd.com/files/1936DeereBRockerInstalled.jpg

1936DeereBRockerInstalled.jpg


Those are similar to the symptoms present on a B I worked on.

Obviously, before welding the rocker was a non-factory multi-piece design. The early (pre-1940s) rockers are tough to find, but the later versions are available. It all stems (pun intended) from a sticky valve.
 
(quoted from post at 19:20:54 12/26/22)...The magneto seems to be firing even on the exhaust stroke.
Click to expand...

Regarding the mag, you may hear the impulse clutch operate on the exhaust stroke for each cylinder, but if the rotor is timed correctly there should be no spark to the plugs on the exhaust strokes, only compression.
 
Replying to both of you, i dont recall seeing a broken or repaired rocker. But i do intend to remove the tappet cover and go thru the mechanical timing again. The spark plugs look like sparklers during cranking. Magneto company says that's normal. As a professional auto mechanic, it sure seems odd to me.

It doesn't backfire or pop n snort while it's running. So I don't think it's a sticking valve, but again, I'm going to go thru it again and watch.

I'd feel better if someone actually knew if regular gas pistons, or performance pistons could be installed in this.

I know that new doesn't mean good, but I'm telking you, other than the pistons and rings, it's all new or professionally rebuilt and tested.
 
Is your governor working properly? If no rpms it may be sticking or stuck. If it was apart, did it go back together properly? Some times the fork can get in the
wrong spot and won't operate correctly. Did you do anything with the rod or main bearings? Are they set to tight? Did you put a new crank oil seal in it? If so did
you properly align the slinger so it is not binding? Little things can get you win trouble.
 
Didn't go any deeper than the head gasket. The governor pushes out against my hand when unhooked from the carb. Per the test, that is correct.
 
More to it than that. The governor to carb rod has to be adjusted first. If it's too short it can't open the throttle all the way. Follow the
manual for adjustments. The loop on the governor spring has to face forward as well.
 
When working on an old tractor where you don't know the history of it, you can find some interesting things. As noted, the mag firing on every revolution is normal, doesn't hurt a thing and was a simpler way of producing the tractor. Once the tractor is running, have you tried removing the linkage and operating the throttle at the carb? If it runs correctly that way, your problem is in the governor/linkage. Another easy thing to do, is to check for intake leaks with starting fluid. Spray some around the intake flange for the carb and if rpm picks up, there is a leak. As for the 130# compression, people have tried all sorts of things with these tractors and it's anyone's guess without getting numbers off of the parts.
 

Then there was the power block, but I don't think even that with maximum bores would make 130# cranking.
 
Maybe the air cleaner is plugged. Disconnect the air cleaner from the carburetor. Does it run? I currently have a 46 B in my yard.
Right now it is just yard art that ran good when I parked it several years ago. One summer I observed a lot of hornets going in and out
of top of the air cleaner. They have plugged the air cleaner to the point that I will have to remove it to clean it. I'm not looking
forward to that.

There is a wire mesh in the air cleaner body above the oil cup. I have seen this mesh get plugged up with bugs and other debris. I think it is removable for cleaning. I was able to remove it on my 8N to clean it. Also the center tube of the air cleaner can get enough crud in it to partially plug it up.
 
I'm going to double check the intake system. I currently have the lower cup off. I can blow air thru the hole in the assembly, and out the intake stack. But idk if its getting thru the screen. I could take the rubber boot off the pipe I suppose.
 
I have tried to run it with the linkage disconnected. As fast as the compression, you are correct. I'm not taking it apart though to get numbers just yet. I did look online, and didn't find any "performance" pistons.
 
Trying to attach some video.
[video play=false:fbd83adc24]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo100796.mp4[/video:fbd83adc24]

[video play=false:fbd83adc24]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo100797.mp4[/video:fbd83adc24]


This post was edited by cookieman8772 on 12/28/2022 at 04:27 am.
 
I would check the rods going from the carb to the throttle. Make sure that at full throttle you are half a hole short on the rod. It seems to be starving out when the throttle is advanced. Have you tried to adjust the needles on the carb? The last thing is it is hard to hear the engine with that damn flapper clattering on the exhaust.
 
Disregard. I didn't see Post # 14 before posting.

It looks like the governor is at least trying to regulate throttle position.

This post was edited by Watthour on 12/28/2022 at 07:20 am.
 
I have fiddled with every adjustment. The rod is at half hole. The tractor is back home. I'll go try things again in 2 weekends or so.
 
I am new to your thread. Was this engine disassembled? Sounds like something is out of time, spark or maybe cam?
If you pull the left spark plug and turn engine until it starts up on the compression stroke, the plug should fire at the end of the compression stroke.
If not your timing is off either where the mag is mounted or at the gears. Use a timing light and check at the flywheel and the mark on the engine block. There are youtube videos on this.
I am just tearing down my 44 model for restore, I have heard that getting the cam gear and governor gear timed is difficult because you cant see the timing marks on the gears very well.
I would suggest getting on youtube and look up oneminutefarming, he completely restored a B and goes thru great detail how to retime them.
 
Timing fires right at or just ahead of the left impulse mark. Checked that way too many times. If the magneto spins at crank speed, it should fire on exhaust and compression stroke.
 
No. Would cam crank timing being off create high compression in these? It won't in an automobile engine. But I am going to inspect that next trip.
 
cam timing wont make high compression. New aluminum pistons seem to be about 6.5 compression ratio, that would bring compression up.
Compression is a good thing, engine will be more effiecient and make more hp. Your cam may be running late, that will make it run bad.
 
Well, the previous owner was a professional sprint car racer. It's quite possible when he had it rebuilt, that he had it upgraded to performance pistons. But the only thing he pulled with it was a lawn sprayer. He has since passed away, and nobody at his shop seems to know anything about it.
 
I know a couple of you commented that the mag turns at crank speed, and will fire twice per piston cycle. If this is truly correct, on a 2 cylinder engine, how could the plug wires get crossed?
 

Study your distributor cap on the mag. There should be only two towers (terminals) for the HV connections to the plug wires. When the mag turns it will fire on every revolution, but the rotor under the distributor cap will be out of position to [i:ec0dcf6f4a]distribute[/i:ec0dcf6f4a] that spark to any plug wire for two of those firing events.
 
Is there any chance the distributor could be 180 degrees off, even though it fires twice per cycle? I'm going to work on this today. Gonna take the tapper cover off and start at the absolute basics. Going to rotate the crank slowly and follow and verify every single thing that needs to happen.
 
So I found this today. The drive cup is broken in half. Sending back to rebuilder for repair. Idk how this would break.
mvphoto101624.jpg

[/img:c4637d53d6]
 

That's pretty certain to cause issues. I'm a little surprised that it was making any impulse whatsoever, and would be about impossible to start unless pulled/pushed to get the cranking RPM up enough to make spark.
 
The magneto was sent out and repaired. I will install it next trip home. Is there supposed to be oil in the cavity where the magneto drive is? This one is
dry and I can't find an answer. I also had no oil in the tappet cover. But tractor was only ran about 5 minutes, and very poorly. So I have to look into that
too. I do have an oil gauge on it.
 

The magneto drive end of the governor/fan drive housing is not supposed to contain oil on a "B" model at least up through the 1948 version.
 
Got the magneto installed today. Tractor ran good for a few minutes. Now it acts like it's choking itself out. Governor is moving the arm, but I'm gonna look at the weights tomorrow. I'm about to give up altogether.
 
(quoted from post at 06:15:04 02/12/23) Got the magneto installed today. Tractor ran good for a few minutes. Now it acts like it's choking itself out. Governor is moving the arm, but I'm gonna look at the weights tomorrow. I'm about to give up altogether.
Click to expand...
If you want your car to go faster is the first thing you do is put on a bigger shoe? The governor is the ..foot.. pushing on the accelerator of your tractor. Bear with me a bit I am an IH guy. You say it is moving the rod which I assume that is the direction that moves the throttle lever idle stop screw away from the bumper. If this is happening your governor is working fine.. no bigger shoe needed. First make sure there is gas in the fuel tank. Next the carb should have a drain on it. Get a clean container and open it up direct it in the container. Let it run for 15 or 20 seconds. It should continue to flow a stream and not slow to a dribble. Look at what come out is it fairly clean or rusty and brown. If the latter it gives you a good idea what the inside of your carb looks like. If it goes to dribble mode you are not getting enough fuel into the carb. The little doodad the fuel line screws in is a strainer or screen, see link. I suspect you know where the fuel shut off is under the tank, shut it off. Pull the strainer off and carefully pull the screen out and make sure it is clean. If it was dirty I would reinstall it then before you connect the fuel line open the shut off and check the flow out of the line make sure it is more than a dribble. If it is just a dribble there I would immediately get a good flashlight and look down in the tank to see what kind of crud you have down around where the fuel leaves the tank and passes into the sediment bowl ..glass deal.. So you need to do whatever is needed to get good flow through the sediment bowl and through the line. In the end you need to have a good flow out of the carb drain. I hope this is your problem and makes your tractor run. If not I did a lot of typing for nothing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143327783977
 
Furl floe and quality is good. Has a sediment bowl. No debris in it. Carb has been sent out and professionally rebuilt. As has the magneto. It ran good and even increased rpm when it first started. Shut it off. Filled coolant, one lap around yard as it progressively got worse. Now it spits n sputters and tries to run. Lot of black smoke. Intake and exhaust is clear of blockage. Going back today to give it a go again. I suppose I can run it off a different fuel source and give that a try. Oh BTW, carb guy ran it on his tractor and said it worked well.
 
Morning. I got the magneto repaired and reinstalled. Tractor fired right up in the barn. Let it run long enough to verify oil pressure. Shut it off. Filled with 6 gallons of coolant. Started it back up. Drove it out of the barn and made one lap around the yard, then it started acting like it was loading up. Snorting n popping n puffing black smoke, and won't start again. Had to push it back inside. I'm going back today. Gonna see if I have a coolant in the cylinder issue. Fuel supply seems good. Great flow out of the bowl. (Carb was professionally rebuilt n tested). Timing is spot on. Even checked the governor drive alignment.


I'm really getting fed up with this and running out of ideas. Any other thoughts or suggestions? Want to buy a B with a lot of new parts?lol


Have a happy Sunday!


Chad
 
Is the choke control rod bent causing the choke not to fully open? Not being a Deere guy I am not sure what happens when a float needle does not shut or seal on the carb. On the IH carbs they have are up updraft so if the fuel is running over it cannot run right into the engine. Yes, the carb was rebuilt by a pro and the strainer is there to keep crud from getting in the float needle to allow it to work properly and seal. That is perfect world stuff, what I have had problems with is tiny metal or brass filings getting in there passing through the screen and causing it to not seat. If it was flooding to the point that it actually stalled you will need to clean the spark plugs or it probably will not start again. Spray with carb cleaner and wire brush and if you have it available compressed air give it a blast. Repeat a second time. Hopefully a Deere guy will chime in to help you out if I am misleading you. Just chiming in to help you out, hopefully to ward off discouragement. One thing working against you is that many longer term posters on here view on Classic View. On there your post is buried many pages back in December so none of the members that use that view see your updates. It might be helpful to just start a new post and call it part 2 and link this discussion to it. If you do not know how to do that I will watch for it and do it for you.
 
I believe I have found the issue. Intake leak at the manifold. Going to remove it next trip and fix that up. Will update next trip!
 
(quoted from post at 01:57:37 02/13/23) I believe I have found the issue. Intake leak at the manifold. Going to remove it next trip and fix that up. Will update next trip!
Click to expand...
Not that this is not a problem, but a leaking manifold would make a lean mixture and not a rich one. Keep picking away you will get there!
 
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