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134 Head on 172 Engine

C

ccfoshee

Member
I was wondering if anyone had first hand experience with putting a 134 head on a 172 engine and what the power gain might be...

Also, will the head gasket (and other engine parts) be able to handle the higher compression ratio?

Last, I assume these are direct bolt ins with no modification required, however, how do the valves compare in the two heads? Seems to me higher compression ratio is moot if the valves are smaller.

Thanks.
 
They use same head, same gasket, same valves, and the compression ratio should be the same. Only difference between the engines is bore size.

The was one difference but I do not think it was 134 vs 172 but what year made. That was the head bolt size. 1/2 vs 7/16.
 
The valves are the same size but the combution chamber in the 134 CI head is smaller resulting in a higher CR than OEM when the 134 CI head is used on a 172 CI engine.

I've not cc'd the heads so do not know the difference or the amount of CR increase but it is noticeable.

Dean
 
Yes, I knew about the head bolt size...

This is surprising...I had read in quite a few places that the 134 heads would up the compression ratio due to smaller combustion chambers...

Darn, that kills my hope of an easy upgrade...

Thanks.
 
I had a cracked head on my 1955 740 A friend gave me a motor that had a good head put it on the 134cc I had the cracked head repaired went to over hall the motor my fiend gave me found out the pistons were bigger,bottom line I have a134cc engine with a 172cc head and visa versa I can't tell the difference.
 
Well, gents, 12 years ago I installed a 172 block in my 1955 740 and used the 134 head on the 172 block. We used the over bore sleeve and piston kit. This tractor consistantly runs 52 HP. My neighbor has a 960 Ford which he used the over bore sleeve and piston kit and his HP is consistantly 48. So I believe that the 134 head from 1955 year tractors gives higher compression on a 172 block. I have been advised that the heads from both the 134 and 172 engines used during 1957 and newer were the same heads. My compression ratio is 25 psi higher than his 960.
We both use these tractors for pulling and the 740 has a few more ponies.
 
there's a difference if you are in a pulling contest or just out there plowing, not much though, they are still "FORDS" Huh soundguy HAPPY NEW YEAR guys, I enjoy listening to the advice given and the advice takened, God bless America.
 
In an original 1958 Ford Tractor Parts catalog there is 1 head (PN 310097) shown for the 601/701/801L/901L and another head (PN 310099) shown for the 601K/701K/801/901.
My 851 and 971 both have a head casting number 310100 and the 971LPG I parted out had a head casting number 310098.
It is apparent that the 134 head was used on the 172 LPG engines. Since LPG has less energy than Gasoline I believe the combustion chamber in the 134 head is smaller which increases compression when used on a 172LPG.
 
(quoted from post at 15:20:40 12/27/10) I was wondering if anyone had first hand experience with putting a 134 head on a 172 engine and what the power gain might be...

Also, will the head gasket (and other engine parts) be able to handle the higher compression ratio?

Last, I assume these are direct bolt ins with no modification required, however, how do the valves compare in the two heads? Seems to me higher compression ratio is moot if the valves are smaller.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The heads will interchange. This photo shows a 134 and a 172 head combustion chambers. You can see the chamber in the 134 is considerably smaller. The important thing when swapping them is to use the correct size head gasket to match the block you are using, not the head.

ohvheads.jpg
 
Thank you, Mr. Smith. That is the best reply so far.

By the way I love your site - especially the page on the SOS lawnmower (I have an 881 that I am rehabbing).
 
If you stuck a 134 gas head on a 172 gas engine with a standard thickness head-gasket - it would probably run awful and not last very long. Compression ratio would jump up around 9 to 1 and it would probably detonate most of the time, even with "premium" high-octane gas and the timing retarded.

If you stuck a 134 gas head on a gas 172, and used the 172 LPG head gasket, the compression ratio would be 8.6 to 1, which you might live with IF you retarded the timing and used the highest octane gasoline you could find.

I've tried it with other make tractors, sometimes at customer's requests. Some companies e.g. Deere sold high-altitude pistons meant to be used only at high elevations where the air is thin. But, stick them in a gas engine tractor running near sea-level, and the compression ratio would jump up a whole step and a half. It was disaster on all we tried - for extra power purposes instead of reclaiming power at high levels.

Ford used a convoluted mess of varioius head gaskets, along with two different combustion-chamber sized heads - to make the 134s and 172s run on kerosene, propane and gasoline. Ford also used special pistons for 134s and 172s if run on kerosene. There were nine different head gaskets used by Ford.

Generally speaking- Ford used these CRs:

Gasoline - 7.5 to 1 or 8 to 1 compression ratio
Kerosene - 5 to 1 compression ratio
Propane - 8 to 1 and 8.6 to 1 compression ratio

I suspect if you run gasoline with anything higher then 8 to 1, your'e going to get in a mess.

The only farm tractor Company to ever run 8.5 to 1 sucessfully with gasoline was Oliver and they still hold the world's record for gas engine efficiency in a farm tractor. That was in the late 1960s. They had to do a lot of work-arounds to keep it from burning itself up.
 
(quoted from post at 10:08:13 12/29/10) If you stuck a 134 gas head on a 172 gas engine with a standard thickness head-gasket - it would probably run awful and not last very long. Compression ratio would jump up around 9 to 1 and it would probably detonate most of the time, even with "premium" high-octane gas and the timing retarded.

If you stuck a 134 gas head on a gas 172, and used the 172 LPG head gasket, the compression ratio would be 8.6 to 1, which you might live with IF you retarded the timing and used the highest octane gasoline you could find.

I've tried it with other make tractors, sometimes at customer's requests. Some companies e.g. Deere sold high-altitude pistons meant to be used only at high elevations where the air is thin. But, stick them in a gas engine tractor running near sea-level, and the compression ratio would jump up a whole step and a half. It was disaster on all we tried - for extra power purposes instead of reclaiming power at high levels.

Ford used a convoluted mess of varioius head gaskets, along with two different combustion-chamber sized heads - to make the 134s and 172s run on kerosene, propane and gasoline. Ford also used special pistons for 134s and 172s if run on kerosene. There were nine different head gaskets used by Ford.

Generally speaking- Ford used these CRs:

Gasoline - 7.5 to 1 or 8 to 1 compression ratio
Kerosene - 5 to 1 compression ratio
Propane - 8 to 1 and 8.6 to 1 compression ratio

I suspect if you run gasoline with anything higher then 8 to 1, your'e going to get in a mess.

The only farm tractor Company to ever run 8.5 to 1 sucessfully with gasoline was Oliver and they still hold the world's record for gas engine efficiency in a farm tractor. That was in the late 1960s. They had to do a lot of work-arounds to keep it from burning itself up.
Click to expand...
By looking purely at the above photos I think the 172 head would have better flow around the valves over the smaller head . If this assumption was shown to be true on a flow bench then I would think any gain in horsepower from the compession would be given up by flow and vise versa. Meaning i belief the 172 head and piston dome that gave the same compression ratio that the smaller head does by swaping to it would make the most power .you would have the best flow around the intake valve and the benefit of compression jmho
 
Flow rate was something I had considered - as far as valve size - but I didn't take into account the shape of the combustion chamber - good catch - I believe you are right.

Also, some great info on head gaskets - this is much more complicated than the normal car engines that I am used to...
 
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