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Compression test

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Randy

08-08-2002 18:44:31

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Folks: I tested the compression on my 35 Z134 engine. I found #2,3,&4 cylinders were good (according to the manual) at 143-145lbs, but #1 was 130. Added a squirt of oil to the cylinder, re-tested at 140lbs. I thought maybe the rings were stuck, so I put in some Marvel Mystery oil to soak in around the rings and make them fit better. If this doesn't work, I thought about trying Restore or something like that. It doesn't smoke, so I don't want to ruin it, and I don't plan to rebuild for a long time. I can easily live with it if Restore was going to ruin it. You folks got any ideas? Thanks!

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Randy

08-09-2002 23:17:13

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Re: Compression test in reply to Randy, 08-08-2002 18:44:31

Folks: Sounds like Restore is out of the question for me. I'll just run it and be happy with it, as it seems to be in better condition than I first thought. It's a '62, so I would think it used detergent oil from the start. I remember my dad using them in the late 50's, so someone would have had to make a special effort not to use them. I know the owner before me used it. Thanks for the advice.

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Larry in Missouri

08-09-2002 08:13:55

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Re: Compression test in reply to Randy, 08-08-2002 18:44:31

Really, I wouldn't worry about it. The rule of thumb is that something is wrong if there is a greater than 10% difference in compression between cylinders. And while you are about at the 10% mark, it's close enough that I would forget about it and keep using the tractor until the compression really suffered. That sounds like great compression to me.

Larry in Missouri

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Ray,IN

08-08-2002 20:40:43

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Re: Compression test in reply to Randy, 08-08-2002 18:44:31

Sounds like you have a little used engine, except for #1 cyl. Using Restore, or any other heavy stuff will be hard on the rest of the cylinders while filling the worn rings of #1. I suggest using a bore scope(rental store) to inspect #1, and if you don't find any cylinder wall scoring, proceed to use the engine as if nothing was different. Many of these fine old engines are ruined by using multi-weight oil instead of 30W non-detergent as specified by Harry Ferguson. Dad bought a 1953 TO30 and sold it to me in 1989, it still has great compression and has never been apart. We always use the recommended oils and service regularly.

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Dennis in Ma

08-09-2002 06:25:54

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Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Ray,IN, 08-08-2002 20:40:43

You are the second person who has said not to use multi-oil. If the engine is old and has been running straight weight non detergent, I can see it but if it's been overhauled, it makes no difference, in fact multi vis degergent is better. Are you saying never to use it in a Fergie or only in older unrestored engines????

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Peter derbyshire

12-02-2002 05:39:01

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Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Dennis in Ma, 08-09-2002 06:25:54

could you please tell the compression and clynder leakage figures for a four clyinder 135. i dont know the year it becase there are no plates. It is part of my college project in land based machinery. Looking forward to your reply Peter Derbyshire

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Jim W

08-09-2002 17:48:27

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Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Dennis in Ma, 08-09-2002 06:25:54

Did they even have multi-weight oils when these tractors were built? If not, that would explain Harry's recommendation for straight 30.
Jim W

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Dennis in Ma

08-09-2002 17:54:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Jim W, 08-09-2002 17:48:27

I don't know when multi vis detergent came out but the detergent can be the only issue that I see. Putting detergent oil in an old engine that has always run non detergent would result in all kinds of dirt and sludge being cleaned off the insides of the engine and pushed thru bearing surfaces, oil lines, etc causing problems but a newly overhauled and cleaned out engine would benefit from modern multi vis detergent oil just as the newer engines all use it. Multi vis detergent is the favorite of the old car crowd running in rebuild engines. I know, I'm one of them running it in my 1914 Ford.

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Ray,IN

08-09-2002 20:24:30

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Dennis in Ma, 08-09-2002 17:54:56

Dennis is correct about the detergent/additives being a problem -in an engine with original seals and gaskets. the additives/detergents will slowly destroy them. Using modern oil in a rebuilt engine is fine. Using multi-weight oil is not recommended for these old engines, so we have always used the recommended non-detergent oils; SAE 30W above 50*F, SAE 20W below 50*F, and SAE 10W below 10*F. I may be overly cautious but my TO30 engine has never been apart, carries good oil pressure when working it hard, does'nt smoke any or use any oil between changes. I've driven this tractor since Dad bought it new(except for a tour in RVN), and consequentually know it well. I won't mess with what has worked for the past 49 years; I'll continue to follow Harry Fergusons recommendations for maintaining my tractor.

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Gregg/Ohio

08-10-2002 20:30:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Ray,IN, 08-09-2002 20:24:30

I read these posts on oil with great intrest, I am a racing engine builder here(autos) and after building thousands of engines and testing them on the Dyno,shipping them out,and then getting same back for teardown the teams that used Synthetic oils, 15w-50,20w-50,10w-40,5w-50, those engines looked, and checked out great.Whats this got do with our tractors? After getting to meet lots of the oil company enginerrs at the races,I asked if the synthetics would be ok for my pre 1970 Muscle Cars? They all said yes,that being said I asked about my Dear (1959) TO-35 Gas Tractor? The Reply was "There is Nothing this type of oil could hurt" Well, in 1989 Synthetic oil went in my newly purchased 30 year old Ferguson,I know this will shake up a lot of the old school tractor guys,But in the last 13 years The Z-134 engine (not rebuilt) has had NO downtime at all,ie:no valve adjustments,no make-up oil between changes,runs cool (175-180max)150psi compression test all 4 clys. this tractor has great power and really purrs. Also I cant stand a oil leaker,I put in a new pto shaft seal in 1990, As of today the engine has never droped one oil drip on my garage floor.The engine is as dry as a popcorn fart.I cant quite say the same for the axle seals! I use 15w50 summer(I finish mow 17 arces here with a 3 point 5 foot RM59 Woods Finish Mower/also some rough cutting with a 5ft. bush-hog--winter 5w30 weight for rear mount 7 foot snowthrower.(1000 ft. driveway here) I know a lot of you wont agree with this post,but this type of oil worked for me. the z134 engine has been together 43 years,I think at this point its headed for another 43! Thanks Gregg/Ohio---Dayton,Area

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Ray,IN

08-13-2002 20:32:53

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Gregg/Ohio, 08-10-2002 20:30:22

I agree Greg, synth. oils are a whole different set of rules vs dino oils. Did you flush out the engine prior to installing the synth oil? I've read that it will clean out the sludge and settlings into suspension and occasionally cause problems.

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Gregg/Ohio

08-13-2002 21:56:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Ray,IN, 08-13-2002 20:32:53

Did you flush out the engine prior to installing the synth oil? I've read that it will clean out the sludge and settlings into suspension and occasionally cause problems. Gregg/Ohio replys to Ray/Ind.
Yes Ray, I did flush out the Z-134 many times with dino oil before going to the syn. oil. (This TO-35 Tractor really was maintained well before I bought it,I know the TO-35 Special Models didnt have hour-meters,but I would say mine has/had very low total hours) As a side note: When I bought my TO-35,(Fall of 1988) I told the Farmer/seller to keep it at his place until my new Barn/Garage was finished,In November 1988 (just as I made my last payment to seller,2500 dollars total)He called me to tell me as he was using my Ferguson to pull his fishing boat out of 9 acre farm pond/lake with a chain,to store up on shore for the long Ohio winter ahead.Guess what? He said he left tractor in Neutral,as he got off to take chain off boat, and my TO-35 rolled down bank,went into lake running,sank into about 15 foot of water.(it took a D-4 Cat Dozer, 50 foot of chain and 2 hours to bring it back out.) I almost wanted my money back for tractor,but after many,many,engine oil/Trans fuild (very costly) changes,(at the sellers expence) plugs,points,sand in gas tank,etc,rebuild generator,rusted up voltage reg.(at my expence) So you might say it was Flushed out real well! Other then these problems (not the tractors fault)This has been a great trouble free unit to date. Gregg/Dayton

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Roger

08-14-2002 07:06:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Gregg/Ohio, 08-13-2002 21:56:26

Gregg;
What is "dino oil" and what's the best method to
flush the engine? Anything to watch out for?
Have you switched to synthetics in all your
engines? Do you have a preferred brand/type?
Thanks in advance;
Roger

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Randy

08-14-2002 13:35:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Roger, 08-14-2002 07:06:22

Gregg: Is there a particular brand of synthetic that you find works better? Also, what grade/weight, in both cars/trucks and tractors?

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gregg/ohio

08-15-2002 21:38:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to Randy, 08-14-2002 13:35:50

Wow! Look at all the above RE:'s Roger/Randy: The term Dino oil is short for Dinosoar crude oil formed millions of years past (Fossil Fuels) pumped out of Mother Earth.(possibly containing remains of everything that was living or growing at the time?)The Dino crude is then (cracked or refined into every thing from Kerosene to Unleaded Gasoline,Motor Oils,and hundreds of other great things.)Synthetic oils are almost all manmade,much more costly to make.(I think all Synthetics use a small amount of conventional/Dino as a oil additive carrier)I am by no means a oil expert,just a good listner/reader of the results I have seen.As for the Brands: At our Engine shop here,over the years we have been given the following Oils:(For no cost,to ship with and recomend for the racing teams)Valvoline,Mobil 1, Chevron-Exxon,Conoco,Pennsoil,Torco. All Brands in Conventional and Synthetic Blend (25-40 percent Synthetic oil,as they do mix well),also in 100 percent synthetic.This post is not going to be advertisment,But, I will say all the above worked very well.We send engines out during summer months with 15w-50/15w-40 grades with great results. The Chevron was a little different with 5w-50,but also saw great results,The owners soon thought they could find a little more power with running a lighter oil,ie:0w-40,5w-30,5w20,But the engines looked much worse after teardowns,The items in a engine that run hot ie: valve guides,piston pins,clyinder walls looked real bad after running the super light weight oils. This had to hurt power in the long run. Before this post gets any longer, I have a fleet of over 20 engines @ home/shop from 4 horsepower to over 500,including a TO-35 tractor,all use synthetics,15w-40/15w-50 summers,5w-50winters.I have had no problems in any.Most of the older units were flushed/cleaned out with sooner(more often) then regular Dino oil changes.(no solvents,additives)I would also agree with most of the readers of this post that using the costly syns. is overkill in most of my apps. But even if I had to buy it, I still probably would use it.hope this helps? Gregg/Ohio

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paul

08-20-2002 02:18:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compression test in reply to gregg/ohio, 08-15-2002 21:38:22

Gregg you are almost right. I reseached Synthetic oils back in the early 80's and found that Synthetic oils are made of Ester. Ester is the chemical that breaks down everything. everything has Ester and this is the basic building block of Synthetic oils. It is a detergent that cleans. The most dirtiest ester in the world in crude oil and the cleanest ester in the world is Corn oil. There are a lot of other ingredents in Synthetic oils to for pressures, shear strengths. A real good quality Synthetic oil will be almost clear and you should be able to get 25,000. miles per oil change. A poor quality (cheap made from dirty crude esters) will be dark almost the same color as 30W detergant dino oil. I studied Synthetic oils for over 5 years before even using them and i choose to use good gquaility and have had great luck even with 0W5 in big blocks chevys.

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