Will 8 volt battery harm the new electronic ignition?

Hello Fellas,

I'm having trouble getting my 9N to start and have learned that there are several ways to choose from that might fix the problem.

My engine has the old style points in the distributor right now. But the spark is so darn weak, she won't start up. I've heard that the starter pulls the battery down so much that there really isn't much juice left for the ignition system. To fix the problem, it was suggested to me to put in an 8 volt battery (which I had never heard of before). I've checked it out and in fact they do make such an animal.

But before I had heard of this idea, I had heard of another possible solution. Change the old point scheme out for the newer automotive type of electronic ignition.

I wouldn't be opposed to having them both on this old boy, but I'm a fearing that the 8 volt might damage the electronic gizmoe (that conciquently hasn't yet arrived).

Has any of you fellas tried or heard of someone that tried to match up one of these ignitions to an 8 volt battery before? Is it okay to do? :roll:

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I would not recommend changing to an 8V battery unless you are skilled in the largely lost art of voltage regulator adjustment.

I would certainly not recommend using an 8V battery in conjunction with an electronic ignition unit designed for a 6V system.

Dean

i use to have a 1957 ford 609 tri cycle.it had a 8 volt battery in it.it was positive ground.let me know if you find one.
i had no trouble with the electric on it.it was 6 volt system.

It is really not the voltage that is giving you trouble. These tractors and other vehicles work fine on 6v or 12v..., whatever they were designed for. They crank fine on a fully charged battery and start in a couple of revs in nearly any temperature. You have some component that has failed or is failing, a mixture problem, or a carb/throttle/governor connection that is mis-adjusted. Get that fixed and you won't need Electronic Ignition or any other battery. After you get it running, you might go to EI for other reasons, but it won't fix the problem you have somewhere else.

if you are thinking about 8v and thinking about ei, i would suggest instead, 12v and ei.

12v chargers and batteries are easy to find.

you can get your starter rebuilt as 12v if ever need be.

you can get 12v lamps too.

can't get any of that other stuff in 8v... just 6v and then over voltage it hoping it don't fry or die.

no need to booger-rig this from the start.

do a full tune up and see where you are at.

ei is not a fix for a worn dragging starter.

" I've heard that the starter pulls the battery down so much that there really isn't much juice left for the ignition system."

Yep. I'm sure you heard that.

I've heard other fairy tales too.

I have 4 8N's. All are 6 volt & all have points. And they all start & run fine.

There are EI advocates around here, points advocates & those who will tell you that it really doesn't matter......but I doubt you will find anyone telling you to use an 8v battery. Especially on an EI unit.

Why not diagnose the problem & fix it rather than just toss new unneeded & expensive parts at it?

Do use a float charger?

Have you checked the battery w/ a hydrometer?

How about voltage drop on the starter?

A worn out starter will pull too much current even if it's on 8v, 12v points or EI. So, converting to 12v & adding EI will not cure a dragging starter. (if that's your problem)

--- Putting EI on a N series tractor will replace the points. Any other "advantages" will be miniscule.

---- If you have a well running tractor & just don't care to fool w/ points anymore, EI is a perfect alternative.

---- If you expect EI to cure any significant ignition problem you may have other than bad points, it won't.

Bottom line……….this is the question you need to answer: “If tens of thousands of other N’s operate just fine on 6v and points, why can’t mine?”
75 Tips

If you do regular maintenance on your tractor,keep
your battery charged,and stay away from bad
gas,you'll have no problems. My tractor,when my
battery was weak,started fine with the crank that I
have. The points[good ones]should last a while.
lha

You have gotten some good advise here. Either
fix the 6 volt system so it works or convert to
12 volts. I purchased an 8N once that had an 8
volt battery on it. It worked fine for about 2
months. By then the battery was weak and there
was no way to charge it back up. I replaced it
with a 6 volt battery and it is still running
and starting after 7 years. I will never put an
8 volt battery in one of these tractors. I have
nine of them running on 6 volts and one on 12
volts.

Thank you for the wise suggestions. As a matter of fact, I haven't pulled the starter apart to see what it looks like inside. It could be the cuprit.

This motor has just been rebuilt and isn't broken-in yet. The orignal man that sold it to me got it started by connecting a 12 volt battery to the starter temporarily and it did start. It even started on the 6 volt battery once or twice after that. But now it just cranks till the battery dies out.

Wow! That's proof enough for me. The folks at Tractor Supply where I live stock 8 volt batteries and tell me its for the Ford tractors, ie., 6 volt system. I was wondering how the generator charges the battery up if you switch over.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Thanks Iha, I will if I can ever get it to run like its supposed to. The original motor for this 9N was cracked up and the previous owner covered it up with body puddy and paint. I tracked down a used 8N block and built it from the bottom up. New pistons, rings, cylinders, valves, decked the head, cut the valve seats, turned the crank, you name it! Still no love from this beast.

Thanks Soundguy,

I've gotten some really good feedback here. I considered going to 12 volt, but my son shamed out of that thought because he wanted to preserve the original design. I suppose I do to. Someone suggested that if other guys can get theirs to run on 6 volt, I should be asking myself - "Why can't I." Good question!

Changing to 12 volt is out of the question for now at least. I've spent too much money on lights, batteries, and the rest to switch now.

I suppose the next step for me at this point is to pull the starter apart. It seems to work fine, but I have no idea how many amps its pulling or what a normal starter draws.

Thanks Jim, good advice.

Hello HIVEY

They sell the batteries at Tractor Supply and the salesman made it sound like folks to it all the time. Enough to the point where they stock them on the shelf!

I have a friend who runs 8 volt on his and he is telling me that is where I'm going wrong. Who know?

Thanks again.

Thanks Dean,

I am of the vintage that once set the gap in the voltage regulators of cars. But I don't think I could do it now.

Thanks for your opinions and comments.

if you are going for purity, 8v is more of a blasphemy than 12.

If you have a new 6v bat, charge it, make sure you have good 1/0 cables, good ends, and a clean non painted or rusty ground.. I don't recommend sheet metal.

Once you have that, put a com across bat and try to start, if it drops lower than 4.5, you may have a sick starter.

It doesn't, then you have a dead 8v bat in a 6v system.

If you tweaked the reg, and had a magneto, and no lamps, you could do it.. Or a 1 wire 9n/ 2n Genny, might tweak it enough with 3rd brush up...

(quoted from post at 23:28:59 10/30/14) Hello Fellas,

I'm having trouble getting my 9N to start and have learned that there are several ways to choose from that might fix the problem.

My engine has the old style points in the distributor right now. But the spark is so darn weak, she won't start up. I've heard that the starter pulls the battery down so much that there really isn't much juice left for the ignition system. To fix the problem, it was suggested to me to put in an 8 volt battery (which I had never heard of before). I've checked it out and in fact they do make such an animal.

But before I had heard of this idea, I had heard of another possible solution. Change the old point scheme out for the newer automotive type of electronic ignition.

I wouldn't be opposed to having them both on this old boy, but I'm a fearing that the 8 volt might damage the electronic gizmoe (that conciquently hasn't yet arrived).

Has any of you fellas tried or heard of someone that tried to match up one of these ignitions to an 8 volt battery before? Is it okay to do? :roll:

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Whut you need is a VOLT meter... It won't tell all but would help make a good guess....

1) Charge the bat good.
2) Crank the engine a few times to burn off the top charge
3) Engine off Record the battery voltage
4) Crank the engine a few revolutions record the lowest voltage
5) Record bat voltage if it does not return very close to #3 suspect a bad bat...

Post yer results... I trained a woman to do this maybe one day I can train others here that give there time to help...

Sorry I don't have any useful info on a 8V battery... I go with the flow "Don't Go There"...

You have got some good info so far break out a volt meter...

(quoted from post at 12:28:59 10/30/14) Hello Fellas,

I'm having trouble getting my 9N to start and have learned that there are several ways to choose from that might fix the problem.

My engine has the old style points in the distributor right now. But the spark is so darn weak, she won't start up. I've heard that the starter pulls the battery down so much that there really isn't much juice left for the ignition system. To fix the problem, it was suggested to me to put in an 8 volt battery (which I had never heard of before). I've checked it out and in fact they do make such an animal.

But before I had heard of this idea, I had heard of another possible solution. Change the old point scheme out for the newer automotive type of electronic ignition.

I wouldn't be opposed to having them both on this old boy, but I'm a fearing that the 8 volt might damage the electronic gizmoe (that conciquently hasn't yet arrived).

Has any of you fellas tried or heard of someone that tried to match up one of these ignitions to an 8 volt battery before? Is it okay to do? :roll:
hello, I have an old 54 jubilee with the original 6 volt system and I did have an 8 volt bat on it for 4 years and I got it from t. supply, I never knew this until I read this forum and went to the barn and looked at old one LOL, and it went dead last month and my new bat is from rural king is in fact a 6 volt, only thing I noticed is the 6 volt seems to crank it slower much slower , that 8 volt fired it over strong...hopes this helps.
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Click to expand...

:mrgreen:

Your welcome and good luck with your tractor. Lots of people here will help you fix the six volt system or help you change it over to we volts.

hello again I forgot to post that the old shot 8 volt battery also worked on my 47/ 51 8n because I was mowing last summer with the n and stopped to eat supper went out it was dead so I borrowed the [unknowing 8 volt] from the jubilee to finish mowing it worked fine till I got a new one from rural king P.S. they are only $47.00 from my local r.king that 8 volt one was 90 something 4 yrs ago at t.s. maybe you could start with a new battery since it's the EASY FIX, good luck.

I would put in tune up kit. and rebuild the
starter. it might be wore out and drawing more
amps than it should. Robbing your distributor.

Stay away from 8v batteries. it would be much
smarter to upgrade to 12v than 8v.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to getting a tractor to run correctly. One way is to just start replacing every part you can get to until it runs correctly or you run out of money. The other way is to take a step-by-step approach to solving the problem, working from most likely to least likely. The trick to fixing these tractors (or trouble shooting any piece of equipment) is to be systematic about it. You need to isolate the problem step by step and work from most likely to least likely.

Start w/ the obvious & most likely cause of the problem: your battery. Follow Hobo & Soundguy's advice. Check it w/ a hydrometer (tip # 49)& if you can find a shop w/ a 6v load tester, have that done.

Next, pay careful attention to tips 27 & 41. Having the correct type of wires & clean, tight connections is critical in a 6v system.

" I have no idea how many amps its pulling or what a normal starter draws. "

Excellent idea! Check the starter current draw before you pull it off the tractor! It should draw 100-150 amps.

" I suppose the next step for me at this point is to pull the starter apart."

Before you do that, see tip # 36.

And if you pull it off, other than worn brushes, there's not much you're going to do w/ it unless you can turn an armature at home.

If you do not have a local rebuild shop, give these guys a call for a quote & shipping info:

Automotive Manufacturers Inc
2400 N Lombardy St Richmond, VA 23220
(804) 321-6861

They do mail order work. They rebuild carbs, clutches, pressure plates, water pumps, alternators, generators, starters & reline brakes.

The battery, starter & cables/grounds are the most likely causes of a weak spark. But there are other possibilities too. Post back w/ results or more questions.
75 Tips

I understand a twelve volt conversion on about anything isn't
real hard but I have to ask why everyone is so opposed to a 8v?
A ford 8n isn't really big enough to need more than six unless
you have alot of lights but turning up a regulator is not hard. I
wasn't even born until after solid state regulators were
standardeequipment but I figured it out easily enough. I know
several larger show tractors running 8v for appearance sake
MM U, farmall M ect. I would check things mentioned if it was
my unit but if an 8v was cheaper I dont see anything wrong with
it. Not trying to be controversial but am I missing somthing
here?

" am I missing somthing here? "

Yep.

an 8v battery w/ a tweaked v/r in an 8N w/ a front distributor will burn out the coil.

Not to mention the lights.

But more to the point, " but turning up a regulator is not hard." does not apply to the standard v/r on an 8N.

Plenty of other v/r's, even Ford models, can be adjusted w/o a lot of effort & knowledge, but the 8N v/r isn't easy at all.
75 Tips